[Feature Request] Backup destinations - Datadomain

[tommy.lidal]

Hi.

It has probaly been asked for but Veeam O365 backup should be able to use VBR same as Veeam agent for windows, we are using datadomains for backupstorage (veeam bacup and replication for Vmware) and Windows/linux clients using VBR 9.5 respetority .
I wold like to put O365 backup direct to media insted of route it tru a virtual server filling up space on san.

[Mike Resseler]

Hi Tommy,

Unfortunately that won't really work with VBO the way the repository is built today. Since this is a running database (of the type jet blue, aka ESE) datadomain won't be able to perform well with this type of repository. We might consider in the future to start working with the same type of repository as VBR or VAW but for now it is completely different

[tommy.lidal]

ok , thans for replaying..

[tommy.lidal]

Hi Mike,
How does O365 storage sharepoint and ondrive files ? is that a database as well ?

[Mike Resseler]

Hi Tommy,
Yes, that is correct.

[PhilVM]

Hey, I would like to know if it is still the fact, that the DD is not going hand in hand with the O365 client as backup repository? Are there any intends by Veeam to go into that direction for the nearer future?

[Polina]

Hi @PhilVM and welcome to Veeam Forums

It's still the same, the underlying VBO database is not well compatible with DD; and the changes hardly could be expected in the near future.

[PhilVM]

Hey Polina,

thanks for your reply. Regardless the fact that this deduplication unit is not working well with that type of data (I have no POV for efficiency in that case, that doesn't matter to me) is there any possibility, to connect the device (Data Domain 6300) with the O365 backupclient? Currently I can only select "local" volumes but no CIFS- or NFS-shares. Also the DDboost is not implemented.

[Polina]

That's not possible, I'm afraid. VBO only supports SMB 3.0 shares, which (AFAIK) are not yet supported by Data Domain 6300.

[jmmarton]

Even if that model of DD supported SMB 3.0, it's not recommended to use a CIFS/SMB share off of a dedupe appliance for VBO. This is because of the Jet Blue database--you would have constant dedupe/rehydration activities, making database performance very poor.

Joe

[cfizz34]

So if I have two data domains that I cannot use with O365 then what are my choices here.....simply put it all on expensive flash storage?

[nielsengelen]

You can use normal disks or object storage for storing backups. For object storage we support AWS, Azure and S3 compatible storage.

[cfizz34]

So using the data domains in any form or fashion for O365 backups is never going to happen?

[Mildur]

You can create a vbo365-vm with local storage (esxi vmdk or hyperv vhd). This VM is your Veeam Backup Office 365 Server.

Second, your create a backup job on VBR for your vbo365-vm with the datadomain as the target Backup Repo. This way, your vbo365 backup data is on your datadomain and you can use VBR todo restores of Exchange Online, Sharepoint and OneDrive

[cfizz34]

Mildur,
Can you help me understand your suggestion? I want to back up all my Azure O365 mailboxes to my local data domain directly if possible. My VM's sit on my only storage available which is expensive all-flash (via VMFS) and would prefer not to use that since I have over 100TB of exchange data sitting in Azure. Has anyone used iSCSI or FreeNas to accomplish something like this using VBO365?

[Mildur]

Ok, I understand.
100 TB is big data. I have never to deal with this much of mailbox data

Mount an ISCSI LUN to your VBO365 Server is supported and works. If you want to use this a backup target for your VBO365 Data, the NAS and Network Connection should be stable, because VBO365 backup data is stored in running databases on the backup target.

Data Domain isn‘t directly supported as primary target.They cannot run this databases on a datadomain.
The only way for datadomain support is todo a backup of your vbo vm and store it on the datadomain. If you want to use iscsi Target mounted to the guest OS for your primary Backup Location, then you have to protect your VBO 365 VM with Veeam Agent. This backup job will be Application Aware and therefore a consistent backup of the vbo365 databases.

https://www.virtualhome.blog/2019/12/08 ... epository/

[cfizz34]

ok, so I got a NFS mount on the data domain attached to my vmware environment. ill add a local disk using that NFS mounted datastore. does anyone know if you can disable compression/dedupe on a particular mtree on a data domain? im going to test as is to see how the space gets consumed on the DD and will report back once confirmed.

[Mildur]

I donˋt think this is possible.
Datadomain is a dedup Appliance. If there would be a option to disable the dedup/Compression, datadomain has no reason to exist.

Datadomains are not very fast considering the performance.
Your VBO365 performance will suffer with this design.
Never use datadomain to run vm workload.

[cfizz34]

I am not worried about performance as much as capacity. This is mainly just for archived data of terminated users old shared mailboxes and nothing else. Well it does works, but compression numbers are only 1.5x so that is something to consider if using this design.

[cfizz34]

Well it was working and then just broke. When I try to query the repository it fails with a timeout. Datastore and local disk are all still attached but getting a timeout. After about 10 minutes it just decided to start working again....go figure.

[Mildur]

My Advice as I said before, don‘t use datadomain for vbo365 Storage. This is a very bad design. Never.

Your timeout is mostly because of the really bad performance of the datadomain as a live storage for databases and vms.

Datadomains are for backup archival. Unsused Files, which you never have to access if everything is running fine in your environment. But you are using it for a live/productive/running system.
Vbo365 needs running databases with a low latency. Datadomain will never give you that.

If you want to use vbo365, invest in the correct design/storage and server.

[cfizz34]

Duly noted, but we get maybe two requests a year for email recovery so this is primarily for archive only which is where a data domain fits the bill. Much cheaper alternative than my all-flash storage array and just sitting there doing nothing but consuming valuable real estate. It's a trade off that is financially acceptable when there is no budget for storage and as long as management is aware of this unsupported design in case the $hit hits the fan.

[Mildur]

If you can’t query your backups with this design because of performance, then this design isn‘t useful at all.
The main reason you are doing backups is to recover data. If the vbo365 databases can‘t run, then nobody can help help you with that.

There are much cheaper solutions as a DataDomain for big data storages devices.

And for the famous 3-2-1 rule (have always 3 copys of your data, 2 different media, 1 offsite), there is the solution to create a backup of your vbo server to your datadomain.
https://bp.veeam.com/vbo/guide/design/3-2-1.html


This is how the product is build from veeam. We should respect the design or ask for a new feature.

[cfizz34]

Well if I am designing my storage around a particular software vendor (sounds silly saying that but i digress) and need the cheapest thing available then what do you suggest? Azure is not that cheap so if you have something to offer as far a local storage than please point me in a particular direction? What storage vendor do you suggest so I can use it in my vmware environment? BTW, I am by no means a DD supporter and have had numerous issues with it but inherited it so I'd love some alternatives.

[Mildur]

I'm always going this way:
- If I have to purchase a specific Backup Software to use, I had to make sure, that I have the right storage for that
Your way would be:
- I need to use a Datadomain, I'm looking for a software which can use the datadomain to create a Backup.

Compare your data domain prices against onpremise S3 Storage. We compared dedup Appliance against Cloudian S3 and are really happy with the pricetag. And it's faster than a datadomain for Restore purposes.
With the vbo 365 databases, you will not have a good compression on dedup appliances. Because of that, you can look into other solutions without Dedup Features. You can also build your own onpremise S3 Datastore with cheap hardware server. But I'm not the expert in that.

[Polina]

Another 2 cents to this discussion:
When using S3-compatible as a VBO backups target, there will be up to 50% compression of data along with a better backup speed compared to regular local Jet repositories.