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Backup Copy: Frustrations and Suggestions
We've been using Veeam since 6.x. We support SME customers and for a small amount of them we now backup their VMs to a remote site. Because there was no copy job in 6.x we use a second backup job to backup to a remote repository in the data centre. This has worked well for us till now. Recently one site started failing on the weekly synthetic full, so we needed to reseed the data. Because we had upgrade to Veeam 7 I decided to convert this to a copy job instead and took the opportunity to convert our own backup job to a copy job so I could test with two different sites. Unfortunately I'm close to going back to a normal backup job as the copy job just doesn't seem tailored for SME. We don't have $$$ for big links and super fast storage things which to me appear to be key when using backup copy.
I have some open cases with Veeam support I'm working through, but I thought I'd throw out some of my frustrations and suggestions to find out if it's just me or if others are experiencing similar problems.
1) Copy job will fail midway through a machine if the copy time has elapsed: Would be nice if it could finish up what it was busy before doing so rather than throwing away GBs of file transfer. For example I've seen it fail at 75% processing through our exchange server, which can be a good few GBs. If you've only got 5Mbps fibre that's a pretty big setback.
2) Copy job processing order: Presently if the job stops midway and restarts it starts at the very beginning. Thus I end up with many restore points for the first few machines and progressively less for the remaining machines while the backup catches up. Would be nice if it could start where it last left off or pick the machine with the least restore points.
3) Transform takes a long time: I have grown accustomed to synthetic full which appears to run much faster than transform. Transform really hits my bulk Synology SATA storage hard. I'd rather take the knock on an extra synthetic full file on disk space than the time it takes to run the transform. I realise that due to how the copy job process data this may not be possible, but I have to ask
4) Transform failures when connectivity is interrupted: When the copy is done and the transform is running on the remote end a connectivity interruption on the client side will cause the transform to fail. It would be nice for this to be able to process without active connection from the client side. i.e. when the client reconnects the target reports back on the current status of the transform.
5) File Locks when when connectivity is interrupted: If you're going to fail the transform due to a connectivity interruption then there needs to be some time-out to kill the VeeamAgent.exe process locking the file it was using in the transform. This locked file prevents the copy job from processing any new data.
6) Copy data before transform: Often during a catchup phase with restore points I get even more behind with my copy job because a transform needs to complete first. There should be some intelligence which should prioritise getting current data accross over transforming. i.e. copy the data first and then run the transform.
In essence if ever you get behind with you copy job, it will either be interrupted by the copy interval time-out which means it starts from the beginning which could also mean getting delayed even more while a transform completes. In my opinion if you have a small link and/or slow target storage copy jobs at this stage, are not for you.
I have some open cases with Veeam support I'm working through, but I thought I'd throw out some of my frustrations and suggestions to find out if it's just me or if others are experiencing similar problems.
1) Copy job will fail midway through a machine if the copy time has elapsed: Would be nice if it could finish up what it was busy before doing so rather than throwing away GBs of file transfer. For example I've seen it fail at 75% processing through our exchange server, which can be a good few GBs. If you've only got 5Mbps fibre that's a pretty big setback.
2) Copy job processing order: Presently if the job stops midway and restarts it starts at the very beginning. Thus I end up with many restore points for the first few machines and progressively less for the remaining machines while the backup catches up. Would be nice if it could start where it last left off or pick the machine with the least restore points.
3) Transform takes a long time: I have grown accustomed to synthetic full which appears to run much faster than transform. Transform really hits my bulk Synology SATA storage hard. I'd rather take the knock on an extra synthetic full file on disk space than the time it takes to run the transform. I realise that due to how the copy job process data this may not be possible, but I have to ask
4) Transform failures when connectivity is interrupted: When the copy is done and the transform is running on the remote end a connectivity interruption on the client side will cause the transform to fail. It would be nice for this to be able to process without active connection from the client side. i.e. when the client reconnects the target reports back on the current status of the transform.
5) File Locks when when connectivity is interrupted: If you're going to fail the transform due to a connectivity interruption then there needs to be some time-out to kill the VeeamAgent.exe process locking the file it was using in the transform. This locked file prevents the copy job from processing any new data.
6) Copy data before transform: Often during a catchup phase with restore points I get even more behind with my copy job because a transform needs to complete first. There should be some intelligence which should prioritise getting current data accross over transforming. i.e. copy the data first and then run the transform.
In essence if ever you get behind with you copy job, it will either be interrupted by the copy interval time-out which means it starts from the beginning which could also mean getting delayed even more while a transform completes. In my opinion if you have a small link and/or slow target storage copy jobs at this stage, are not for you.
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Re: Backup Copy: Frustrations and Suggestions
Thanks for sharing your experience and feedback; much appreciated!
1. Actually, backup copy job does currently provide resume functionality in WAN accelerated mode. Most likely this will also be enabled for direct backup copy job mode in the next update (so that data that was already copied during previous interval be reused in the next restore point, while the job continues to copy data that was not copied).
2. This sounds reasonable, but currently our strategy is to copy fresh data for all VMs in the list (as during the next interval previously copied restore points are already missing RPO). Though, this can be discussed further.
3. In fact, backup copy job transformation does the same amount of I/O operations as synthetic full backup for incremental backup mode (2x I/O on target). Though, I admit that Synology NAS filled with regular drives does not provide enough IOPS to perform it at decent speed.
4. Veeam B&R maintains connection to the target agent for management purposes. If the connection drops, this can be treated as failure. Though this part could probably be improved.
6. Could you please elaborate on this one? The job should start processing new restore points even if transform of the data copied during previous cycle is not finished.
1. Actually, backup copy job does currently provide resume functionality in WAN accelerated mode. Most likely this will also be enabled for direct backup copy job mode in the next update (so that data that was already copied during previous interval be reused in the next restore point, while the job continues to copy data that was not copied).
2. This sounds reasonable, but currently our strategy is to copy fresh data for all VMs in the list (as during the next interval previously copied restore points are already missing RPO). Though, this can be discussed further.
3. In fact, backup copy job transformation does the same amount of I/O operations as synthetic full backup for incremental backup mode (2x I/O on target). Though, I admit that Synology NAS filled with regular drives does not provide enough IOPS to perform it at decent speed.
4. Veeam B&R maintains connection to the target agent for management purposes. If the connection drops, this can be treated as failure. Though this part could probably be improved.
6. Could you please elaborate on this one? The job should start processing new restore points even if transform of the data copied during previous cycle is not finished.
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Re: Backup Copy: Frustrations and Suggestions
1) Yes I'm using direct mode so a resume function here would be much appreciated.
2) That strategy is fine as long as you are not behind with backups. Currently I am in a catchup phase with the copy for some VMs I have 11 restore points others only 6. The machines with only 6 points backups are 5 days old. Thus I would prefer it to either carry on where it left off or check the oldest restore points and start copying that machine
3) I'll take your word for it. Must be my perception then
4) Yes please
5) No comment?
6) This ties in with point 2. I am presently behind on copying data, so postpone the transform (which takes 12-16hrs for me) and copy data instead. Once the data is up to date, schedule a transform.
Any rough idea when some of my suggestions would possibly be considered? I'm very close to giving up on Copy Jobs and going back to a normal backup.
2) That strategy is fine as long as you are not behind with backups. Currently I am in a catchup phase with the copy for some VMs I have 11 restore points others only 6. The machines with only 6 points backups are 5 days old. Thus I would prefer it to either carry on where it left off or check the oldest restore points and start copying that machine
3) I'll take your word for it. Must be my perception then
4) Yes please
5) No comment?
6) This ties in with point 2. I am presently behind on copying data, so postpone the transform (which takes 12-16hrs for me) and copy data instead. Once the data is up to date, schedule a transform.
Any rough idea when some of my suggestions would possibly be considered? I'm very close to giving up on Copy Jobs and going back to a normal backup.
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Re: Backup Copy: Frustrations and Suggestions
Regarding p.5, probably it just waits some time prior to releasing the file for the case of restored connection.
I cannot give you any ETA regarding these suggestions. Probably, in your case switching to regular backup jobs or using some third-party tool to copy backup files would be reasonable.
I cannot give you any ETA regarding these suggestions. Probably, in your case switching to regular backup jobs or using some third-party tool to copy backup files would be reasonable.
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Re: Backup Copy: Frustrations and Suggestions
I did leave the lock while I opened a case with Veeam support. It remained locked for almost a day before I manually killed the process, so no there doesn't seem to be a time-out.
Ok thanks, I'll switch back to regular backups then.
Ok thanks, I'll switch back to regular backups then.
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Re: Backup Copy: Frustrations and Suggestions
What did our engineer say regarding this lock?
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Re: Backup Copy: Frustrations and Suggestions
Engineer asked me to kill the process.
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Re: Backup Copy: Frustrations and Suggestions
Could you please provide your support case ID number? Thanks.
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Re: Backup Copy: Frustrations and Suggestions
Sure: 00563639
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Re: Backup Copy: Frustrations and Suggestions
QA guys have reviewed your logs, looks like there is an issue on our side (agent stopping mechanism has not been executed for some reason). They will investigate it further.
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Re: Backup Copy: Frustrations and Suggestions
Great, thanks for the feedback.
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Re: Backup Copy: Frustrations and Suggestions
Well, this was confirmed as an issue, will be addressed in one of the future updates. Thanks for the heads up.
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