-
- Novice
- Posts: 8
- Liked: never
- Joined: Apr 08, 2011 1:54 pm
- Full Name: clark keller
- Contact:
Best offsite backup method
I am setting up an offsite repository for nightly backups. This will be over a WAN link with about a 35/5 pipe as the bottleneck. This will be just a windows 7 machine with a shared folder. Should I be doing incremental, reverse incremental or will replication actually work for me? I have about 15 vm's and most of my local reverse incremental vbr files range from about 5gb to 60gb. Sorry for such an amateur question but I need to make sure they are (relatively) quick and effective. thanks!
-
- VP, Product Management
- Posts: 27344
- Liked: 2785 times
- Joined: Mar 30, 2009 9:13 am
- Full Name: Vitaliy Safarov
- Contact:
Re: Best offsite backup method
Actually v6 is optimized to off-site backups out of box, so you can simply backup directly to offsite backup repository. To get better performance I would suggest using default backup mode which is forward incremental.
If you're planning to run replication jobs, don't forget to perform initial VM seeding. That would help you a lot since you're planning to do that over the WAN link.
Hope this helps!
If you're planning to run replication jobs, don't forget to perform initial VM seeding. That would help you a lot since you're planning to do that over the WAN link.
Hope this helps!
-
- Veeam Software
- Posts: 21133
- Liked: 2140 times
- Joined: Jul 11, 2011 10:22 am
- Full Name: Alexander Fogelson
- Contact:
Re: Best offsite backup method
Actually, backup mode not really matters from the link perspective but rather affects your target storage. Reverse incremental mode puts 3x I/O load on target comparing to forward incremental mode, but uses much less disk space.
-
- Novice
- Posts: 8
- Liked: never
- Joined: Apr 08, 2011 1:54 pm
- Full Name: clark keller
- Contact:
Re: Best offsite backup method
Amazing, Thanks guys! Should I do synthetic fulls offsite as well?
-
- VP, Product Management
- Posts: 27344
- Liked: 2785 times
- Joined: Mar 30, 2009 9:13 am
- Full Name: Vitaliy Safarov
- Contact:
Re: Best offsite backup method
Definitely, if you have a remote repository, job's "synthetic full" traffic will be kept within the remote site (no stress on your WAN link).
-
- Influencer
- Posts: 16
- Liked: never
- Joined: Aug 23, 2011 9:39 am
- Full Name: Manuel
- Contact:
Backup to remote site
[merged]
Hi,
I have B&R 6.1.
I need to backup (for disaster recovery) my virtual machines to remote site.
On remote site i have a simple physical windows server 2008 standard.
I don't need replicate my virtual machines, but only emergency backup.
From my site to remote site i have 2Mb/2Mb of connectivity.
What is the best solution for my task ?
On remote server i need only shared folder or i need to install veeam backup proxy ?
Tnx in advance
Manuel
Hi,
I have B&R 6.1.
I need to backup (for disaster recovery) my virtual machines to remote site.
On remote site i have a simple physical windows server 2008 standard.
I don't need replicate my virtual machines, but only emergency backup.
From my site to remote site i have 2Mb/2Mb of connectivity.
What is the best solution for my task ?
On remote server i need only shared folder or i need to install veeam backup proxy ?
Tnx in advance
Manuel
-
- Veteran
- Posts: 261
- Liked: 29 times
- Joined: May 03, 2011 12:51 pm
- Full Name: James Pearce
- Contact:
Re: Backup to remote site
How big are your VBK files?
-
- Influencer
- Posts: 16
- Liked: never
- Joined: Aug 23, 2011 9:39 am
- Full Name: Manuel
- Contact:
Re: Backup to remote site
I have 20 VM's.J1mbo wrote:How big are your VBK files?
Full backup size is big for all VM's (from 1Gb to 60 Gb).
I thought first full backup of all VM's, and later reverse incremental.
But, on destination server (remote site) i need to install Veeam Backup component (veeam backup proxy ?)
-
- Veteran
- Posts: 261
- Liked: 29 times
- Joined: May 03, 2011 12:51 pm
- Full Name: James Pearce
- Contact:
Re: Backup to remote site
Just a thought - if this is Hyper-V you could enable the HV role on the remote server then replicate the VMs. If it's VMware you'd need an Essentials license to do the same, which is still low-cost, $500 or so. Could yield better recovery times with the same effort
-
- Influencer
- Posts: 16
- Liked: never
- Joined: Aug 23, 2011 9:39 am
- Full Name: Manuel
- Contact:
Re: Backup to remote site
It's VMware, and have Essentials license.J1mbo wrote:Just a thought - if this is Hyper-V you could enable the HV role on the remote server then replicate the VMs. If it's VMware you'd need an Essentials license to do the same, which is still low-cost, $500 or so. Could yield better recovery times with the same effort
Then on the remote server should I install Veeam Backup proxy to speed up the transfer?
-
- VP, Product Management
- Posts: 27344
- Liked: 2785 times
- Joined: Mar 30, 2009 9:13 am
- Full Name: Vitaliy Safarov
- Contact:
Re: Backup to remote site
You need to deploy a repository server on your remote site, target proxy is only required for replication jobs.ManuG2k wrote:On remote server i need only shared folder or i need to install veeam backup proxy ?
-
- Influencer
- Posts: 16
- Liked: never
- Joined: Aug 23, 2011 9:39 am
- Full Name: Manuel
- Contact:
Re: Best offsite backup method
For remote backup with WAN connection (2M/2M), not replication jobs, normal backup job, the best method for fast backups is incremental or reversed incremental method ?
Manuel
Manuel
-
- VP, Product Management
- Posts: 27344
- Liked: 2785 times
- Joined: Mar 30, 2009 9:13 am
- Full Name: Vitaliy Safarov
- Contact:
Re: Best offsite backup method
It depends on the storage hardware you're going to have at the remote site, but forward incremental backup mode is generally faster because of the less I/O load on the storage disks.
-
- VeeaMVP
- Posts: 6163
- Liked: 1971 times
- Joined: Jul 26, 2009 3:39 pm
- Full Name: Luca Dell'Oca
- Location: Varese, Italy
- Contact:
Re: Best offsite backup method
Just to add to Vitaliy, backup method has an impact on backup storage I/O, but not on the amount of traffic you put on the wan link, all the reverse calculations are done by the remote repository. This is another reason to have one.
Luca Dell'Oca
Principal EMEA Cloud Architect @ Veeam Software
@dellock6
https://www.virtualtothecore.com/
vExpert 2011 -> 2022
Veeam VMCE #1
Principal EMEA Cloud Architect @ Veeam Software
@dellock6
https://www.virtualtothecore.com/
vExpert 2011 -> 2022
Veeam VMCE #1
-
- Influencer
- Posts: 16
- Liked: never
- Joined: Aug 23, 2011 9:39 am
- Full Name: Manuel
- Contact:
Re: Best offsite backup method
Hi,
i try offsite backup.
The backup method is reversed incremental (on storage settings i set best compression level and wan optimization target).
Start time: 9:54:40 AM
End time: 10:19:08 AM
Size: 16.0 GB
Read: 4.0 GB
Transferred: 1002.8 MB
Duration: 0:24:28
Backup size: 992,7 mb
Dedupe: 5.0x
Compression: 3.3x
My connection link is 2M/2M from local to remote site.
The speed for this job is 0,7 Mb/s, or I read wrong the report ?
Manuel
i try offsite backup.
The backup method is reversed incremental (on storage settings i set best compression level and wan optimization target).
Start time: 9:54:40 AM
End time: 10:19:08 AM
Size: 16.0 GB
Read: 4.0 GB
Transferred: 1002.8 MB
Duration: 0:24:28
Backup size: 992,7 mb
Dedupe: 5.0x
Compression: 3.3x
My connection link is 2M/2M from local to remote site.
The speed for this job is 0,7 Mb/s, or I read wrong the report ?
Manuel
-
- Veteran
- Posts: 261
- Liked: 29 times
- Joined: May 03, 2011 12:51 pm
- Full Name: James Pearce
- Contact:
Re: Best offsite backup method
1GB in 24.5 mins would be 5.5Mbps, which is clearly impossible. With 3.3x compression it's a more reasonable 1.6Mbps.
-
- Influencer
- Posts: 16
- Liked: never
- Joined: Aug 23, 2011 9:39 am
- Full Name: Manuel
- Contact:
Re: Best offsite backup method
how do you get obtain 1.6 mbps from the backup report ?J1mbo wrote:1GB in 24.5 mins would be 5.5Mbps, which is clearly impossible. With 3.3x compression it's a more reasonable 1.6Mbps.
-
- Veteran
- Posts: 261
- Liked: 29 times
- Joined: May 03, 2011 12:51 pm
- Full Name: James Pearce
- Contact:
Re: Best offsite backup method
I was just using Transferred of 1002.8 MB, Duration of 0:24:28 and compression of 3.3xManuG2k wrote:how do you get obtain 1.6 mbps from the backup report ?
So 1002.8MB is approx.8,000 Mb
8,000 / 24.5 minutes / 60 seconds = 5.4 Mbps effective throughput
But it's compressed, so 5.4 Mbps / 3.3 (compression factor) = 1.65 Mbps actual line usage.
I don't know where the de-dupe ratio fits in though as that doesn't seem to follow from any of the other numbers.
If that is the correct way to interpret the numbers, the 1.65Mbps is an understatement of actual WAN usage because of the framing overheads and anything else on the line.
-
- Veeam Software
- Posts: 21133
- Liked: 2140 times
- Joined: Jul 11, 2011 10:22 am
- Full Name: Alexander Fogelson
- Contact:
Re: Best offsite backup method
Compression in this case states for the ratio between the actual VM size and the backup file size: with 5.0x dedupe ratio and 3.3x compression you get 992,7 MB backup file from the 16GB VM.
The speed for this job is ~0.7MB/s (1000MB/24m/60s). What is the exact speed of your link? 2MB/s or 2Mb/s?
The speed for this job is ~0.7MB/s (1000MB/24m/60s). What is the exact speed of your link? 2MB/s or 2Mb/s?
-
- Influencer
- Posts: 16
- Liked: never
- Joined: Aug 23, 2011 9:39 am
- Full Name: Manuel
- Contact:
Re: Best offsite backup method
2Mb/sfoggy wrote:Compression in this case states for the ratio between the actual VM size and the backup file size: with 5.0x dedupe ratio and 3.3x compression you get 992,7 MB backup file from the 16GB VM.
The speed for this job is ~0.7MB/s (1000MB/24m/60s). What is the exact speed of your link? 2MB/s or 2Mb/s?
-
- Veteran
- Posts: 261
- Liked: 29 times
- Joined: May 03, 2011 12:51 pm
- Full Name: James Pearce
- Contact:
Re: Best offsite backup method
which begs the obvious question!
-
- Chief Product Officer
- Posts: 31749
- Liked: 7252 times
- Joined: Jan 01, 2006 1:01 am
- Location: Baar, Switzerland
- Contact:
Re: Best offsite backup method
Should not be using job duration, as there is significant time spent preparing VM for processing, as well as post-processing task. Instead, in calculations like that you should be using actual data transfer time found next to the hard disk line in the job log for this VM.
-
- Veteran
- Posts: 261
- Liked: 29 times
- Joined: May 03, 2011 12:51 pm
- Full Name: James Pearce
- Contact:
Re: Best offsite backup method
but that would surely be less still?
-
- VP, Product Management
- Posts: 27344
- Liked: 2785 times
- Joined: Mar 30, 2009 9:13 am
- Full Name: Vitaliy Safarov
- Contact:
Re: Best offsite backup method
Yes, the duration will be less, however it doesn't seem like 2 Mbit link is used here.
-
- Chief Product Officer
- Posts: 31749
- Liked: 7252 times
- Joined: Jan 01, 2006 1:01 am
- Location: Baar, Switzerland
- Contact:
Re: Best offsite backup method
B&R may not be the only using the link. Alternatively, QoS might be in place there.
-
- Veteran
- Posts: 261
- Liked: 29 times
- Joined: May 03, 2011 12:51 pm
- Full Name: James Pearce
- Contact:
Re: Best offsite backup method
Gostev, the odd thing is that the apparent transfer rate far exceeds the stated line capacity - even with the job stats.
-
- Chief Product Officer
- Posts: 31749
- Liked: 7252 times
- Joined: Jan 01, 2006 1:01 am
- Location: Baar, Switzerland
- Contact:
Re: Best offsite backup method
Ah, never noticed, sorry about that. We get hundreds of similar support cases every year - most of them are the other way, customers complain they are not getting full speed - all of them are generally due to misunderstanding of actual link capacity, or confusion around bits/bytes. So either that, or kind internet provider, or some bug in the statistics reporting (least likely).
-
- Novice
- Posts: 3
- Liked: 8 times
- Joined: Jul 25, 2010 11:34 am
- Full Name: John Mayo
- Contact:
Re: Best offsite backup method
Link capacity can be calculated (rule of thumb) as 400MB/hour for each 1Mb/s of bandwidth.
That's 90% TCP efficiency, which is reasonable for estimation.
Veeam V6 should be able to deliver this (and possibly a bit more) with multiple TCP sessions and if not (due to latency or packet loss on the bandwidth) you can restore with optimiser such as HyperIP.
2Mb/s circuit should deliver 800MB/hour (0.8GB/hour) throughput
10Mb/s circuit should deliver 4GB/hour
100Mb/s circuit should deliver 40GB/hour
Example: If you have 80GB of compressed payload to move across a 2Mb circuit it will take 80/.8 = 100 hours or around 4 days
There's often a lot of misconception about what performance to expect across links and we try and set expectations accordingly with this rule of thumb.
John Mayo
That's 90% TCP efficiency, which is reasonable for estimation.
Veeam V6 should be able to deliver this (and possibly a bit more) with multiple TCP sessions and if not (due to latency or packet loss on the bandwidth) you can restore with optimiser such as HyperIP.
2Mb/s circuit should deliver 800MB/hour (0.8GB/hour) throughput
10Mb/s circuit should deliver 4GB/hour
100Mb/s circuit should deliver 40GB/hour
Example: If you have 80GB of compressed payload to move across a 2Mb circuit it will take 80/.8 = 100 hours or around 4 days
There's often a lot of misconception about what performance to expect across links and we try and set expectations accordingly with this rule of thumb.
John Mayo
-
- Novice
- Posts: 5
- Liked: never
- Joined: Nov 07, 2011 11:24 pm
- Full Name: Dan B. Lee
- Contact:
Best Practices advice regarding off-site replication
[merged]
Hello,
For the sake of DR, we'll be implementing a new VEEAM server at an off-site location. The off-site location is on the WAN, but this will be our second server. Our primary VEAAM server is local to the ESXi environment. I was hoping to get some best practices advice regarding how to go about doing this. One obvious solution would be to simply install VEEAM on the new server and do backups across the WAN. Another option would be to just use the drive space on the off-site server and create a new job on the existing VEEAM server, pointing to the off-site drives.
Are there any other methods anyone can suggest? Thanks in advance.
Hello,
For the sake of DR, we'll be implementing a new VEEAM server at an off-site location. The off-site location is on the WAN, but this will be our second server. Our primary VEAAM server is local to the ESXi environment. I was hoping to get some best practices advice regarding how to go about doing this. One obvious solution would be to simply install VEEAM on the new server and do backups across the WAN. Another option would be to just use the drive space on the off-site server and create a new job on the existing VEEAM server, pointing to the off-site drives.
Are there any other methods anyone can suggest? Thanks in advance.
-
- VP, Product Management
- Posts: 27344
- Liked: 2785 times
- Joined: Mar 30, 2009 9:13 am
- Full Name: Vitaliy Safarov
- Contact:
Re: Best offsite backup method
And here is another good reading on the "offsite" backup techniques: v6 - How to have a local and off-site backup copy?
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: AdsBot [Google], denispirvulescu, evandrosp, vtsybin and 128 guests