Comprehensive data protection for all workloads
jcwuerfl
Enthusiast
Posts: 44
Liked: 4 times
Joined: Jun 29, 2011 8:26 pm
Full Name: James
Contact:

External NAS Destination Stores

Post by jcwuerfl » Nov 08, 2011 8:02 pm

Is anybody using any External NAS Devices for there Veeam Backup Destination Datastores? If so, anyone have any recommendations as to brand/model that you've seen that work well and what protocol you used? aka cifs, iscsi ?

Was thinking something like a drobo, netgear readynas or something similar ?

Thanks

jcmachadouga
Enthusiast
Posts: 29
Liked: 7 times
Joined: Aug 02, 2011 2:17 pm
Full Name: Juan Machado
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by jcmachadouga » Nov 08, 2011 8:18 pm

We use DROBO boxes (NAS/iSCSI target). We used a crossover cable from the Veeam server to the DROBO via iSCSI (using Jumbo Frames). They are cheap and can handle the heavy IO load (i didn't believed the first time I saw it)

jcwuerfl
Enthusiast
Posts: 44
Liked: 4 times
Joined: Jun 29, 2011 8:26 pm
Full Name: James
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by jcwuerfl » Nov 08, 2011 8:28 pm

Good idea w/ the crossover cable. Assuming its a physical server then not a VM? I'm not thinking I want to do USB really, too slow most likely.

Bunce
Expert
Posts: 259
Liked: 8 times
Joined: Sep 18, 2009 9:56 am
Full Name: Andrew
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by Bunce » Nov 08, 2011 8:38 pm

We use QNAPs via SMB over dedicated VLAN in VA mode. No problems and throuput is fine.

Just beware that iSCSI implementations on many of these NAS devices are less than optimal.

Vitaliy S.
Product Manager
Posts: 23171
Liked: 1600 times
Joined: Mar 30, 2009 9:13 am
Full Name: Vitaliy Safarov
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by Vitaliy S. » Nov 08, 2011 8:52 pm

There is existing discussion on this topic, please check it out: recommendations for veeam backup storage

Gostev
SVP, Product Management
Posts: 25070
Liked: 3663 times
Joined: Jan 01, 2006 1:01 am
Location: Baar, Switzerland
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by Gostev » Nov 09, 2011 10:49 am

jcmachadouga wrote:We use DROBO boxes (NAS/iSCSI target). We used a crossover cable from the Veeam server to the DROBO via iSCSI (using Jumbo Frames). They are cheap and can handle the heavy IO load (i didn't believed the first time I saw it)
I have Drobo B800i in my lab for a few weeks now, and so far so good. One thing I would have to disagree with you on Drobo is the statement that it is "cheap". Just compare Drobo units prices with QNAP or Synology, big difference. Drobo is clearly premium storage.

pcamelio
Lurker
Posts: 2
Liked: never
Joined: Jan 28, 2011 4:08 pm
Full Name: Philippe Camelio
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by pcamelio » Nov 12, 2011 9:06 pm

Hi,
To share my experience, we had VBR server as VM with more than 1 To of storage for backup file.
In order to free up our SAN, I migrate the backup location to a QNAP (6 DD of 1To) , and the perf is still very high as SMB share (over 85 MB/s).
I would suggest to make as simple as possible, just use SMB.
Consider also using a NAS with at least 6 DD for better perf. (RAID 5 (4+1+1 spare). We choose QNAP, but Synology looks good too.

The NAS is alos used to share "static" files during the day (mostly software sources).

scott_mac
Enthusiast
Posts: 31
Liked: 1 time
Joined: Aug 18, 2011 2:35 pm
Full Name: Scott Mckenzie
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by scott_mac » Nov 13, 2011 9:36 pm

We use a Readynas Pro 4, CIFS for the backup target and a separate NFS partition for periodic replicas too.

We then Netgear's 'Readynas Replicate' software to duplicate the backups offsite to another Readynas. Works brilliantly.

Gostev
SVP, Product Management
Posts: 25070
Liked: 3663 times
Joined: Jan 01, 2006 1:01 am
Location: Baar, Switzerland
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by Gostev » Nov 13, 2011 10:00 pm

Hi Scott, just curious how do you know if it works well, do you test your offsite backups periodically?

daryanx
Influencer
Posts: 10
Liked: never
Joined: Jun 01, 2011 5:02 am
Full Name: Paul Hutton
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by daryanx » Nov 13, 2011 10:53 pm

We use a QNAP TS-659 Pro+ as the backup target. We run all of our replicas from the box is NFS (as a datastore as the VM host machines and backup to the same location via CIFS. This works fantastically well!

In fact the only complaint that I have is that Veeam doesn't support backup directly to the target via NFS because that would be preferable to ClFS, but that is another story...

In case you are interested, we also use a QNAP NAS as our VM primary shared storage (also via NFS). It works a treat! I would heartily recommend QNAP devices, and their support is fantastic.

lvh
Novice
Posts: 4
Liked: never
Joined: Mar 04, 2010 8:49 am
Full Name: Lars Viggo Høyer
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by lvh » Nov 14, 2011 8:28 am

We have 3 Qnap's 859U and one Netgear ReadyNAS Pro Business Edition using iscsi, the Qnap's have been working allmost without problems. There was some iscsi firmware problems with the Netgear in the beginning but they are fixed now.
The speed is around 60-70 mb/s which is okay since I don't want to stress the Vmware servers to much making backup and replicas during working hours.

scott_mac
Enthusiast
Posts: 31
Liked: 1 time
Joined: Aug 18, 2011 2:35 pm
Full Name: Scott Mckenzie
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by scott_mac » Nov 14, 2011 10:32 am

Gostev wrote:Hi Scott, just curious how do you know if it works well, do you test your offsite backups periodically?
Hi Gostev,

Periodically is a good term to use... but yes I have tested it, we haven't been using Veeam that long and I am just implementing the Virtual Lab/SureBackup system as per a recent Webinar I watched. I am currently a little guilty of not properly confirming my backups work but as i'm the only administrator I would usually know if i'd broken something inadvertently (famous last words!)

I have tested thus far by retrieving a file from a backup that was stored on the replicated Readynas and also booting up a server from a backup - I haven't dug into Veeam to see if it would let me point to the actual replicated backup file on the different NAS to find the backup file, but by copying the backup server to the original target NAS it booted up without issue.

With regard to the iSCSI issues on the ReadyNAS - I too suffered with issues with that, the more recent firmware has resolved it and it has been perfectly reliable since! (more famous last words)

Scott

Gostev
SVP, Product Management
Posts: 25070
Liked: 3663 times
Joined: Jan 01, 2006 1:01 am
Location: Baar, Switzerland
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by Gostev » Nov 14, 2011 11:23 am

Thanks Scott. One thing I love about ReadyNAS is this > Readynas NV+ as target

bjamieson
Lurker
Posts: 2
Liked: never
Joined: Nov 11, 2010 7:08 pm
Full Name: Bruce Jamieson

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by bjamieson » Nov 14, 2011 10:28 pm

We are using a DROBOFS and it is behaving well... so far. Just doing cifs to it. Cheers

phildotnet
Novice
Posts: 3
Liked: never
Joined: Sep 21, 2012 3:03 pm
Full Name: Phil Manning
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by phildotnet » Sep 21, 2012 3:11 pm

Hi Scott,

I was wondering how you had your Veeam backups and readynas replicate set up. You say you have it running perfectly and I am really interested in how you did it.

I don't see how ReadyNAS can just replicate incrementally as Veeam changes the names of all the files as it backs up either via Forward or Reverse incremental.

scott_mac
Enthusiast
Posts: 31
Liked: 1 time
Joined: Aug 18, 2011 2:35 pm
Full Name: Scott Mckenzie
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by scott_mac » Sep 24, 2012 10:39 am

phildotnet wrote:Hi Scott,

I was wondering how you had your Veeam backups and readynas replicate set up. You say you have it running perfectly and I am really interested in how you did it.

I don't see how ReadyNAS can just replicate incrementally as Veeam changes the names of all the files as it backs up either via Forward or Reverse incremental.
Hi,

Slightly unclear here so forgive me if my response doesn't cover everything.

Initially we had an issue where I set the system to Forward Incremental with Monthly Fulls - this worked fine as the amount of data changed was very small and we were able to Replicate around 20Gb over night without issue, the problem was with the Full backup where one of our servers was over 1Tb in size and the backup was around half this - effectively for this I just bought the ReadyNAS in as it was only the size of a toaster and did the Replication over the LAN.

Secondly I opted to try Reverse Incremental, this required a Registry Hack from Veeam support which prevented the .vbk file from being renamed. This got round the problem of huge amounts of data being shifted across the LAN but caused a new bottleneck in that the ReadyNAS was really struggling to use its own 'CBT' to see what had changed and needed to be replicated - it worked but also took a long time.

Ultimately a couple of system changes took place that allowed me to make some changes. 1. We upgraded our main Server to SBS2011 and we were able to rejig the way data was stored internally - mainly that the large proportion of that 1Tb was static data that never changed. 2. The available WAN speed increased tenfold.

So now we're back to the first scenario and backing up more, smaller servers.

It won't work for everyone and in many cases, if you can implement the scenario that Gostev linked to above that is probably ultimately preferable - but for us a dual backup is preferable.....

Hope that helps, not entirely sure if it does!

Scott

ejleipold
Enthusiast
Posts: 62
Liked: 9 times
Joined: Oct 19, 2011 6:14 am
Full Name: Evan Leipold
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by ejleipold » Sep 25, 2012 10:46 am

We use a QNAP TS-859U+ (about 11TB of storage) running across a 2Gb trunk, works great and was cheap and cheerful.

phildotnet
Novice
Posts: 3
Liked: never
Joined: Sep 21, 2012 3:03 pm
Full Name: Phil Manning
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by phildotnet » Sep 27, 2012 3:16 pm

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the reply, I have found that registry hack also and that side of things is working well but the readynas replicate still backs up the full vbk every time after a reverse incremental backup has been done even though only there has only been 20MB of changes. ReadyNAS replicate does not seem to jest send the changes.

How have you got that side working???? Is there anything other than installing readynas replicate that needs to be done on the NAS boxes??

It's been really frustrating and I just want it working... Netgear support have been no help thus far...

Any help you could provide would be fantastic!

(I tried to PM you but I don't think it worked.....)

scott_mac
Enthusiast
Posts: 31
Liked: 1 time
Joined: Aug 18, 2011 2:35 pm
Full Name: Scott Mckenzie
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by scott_mac » Sep 27, 2012 3:41 pm

Hi Phil,

Are you sure it is actually backing up the full vbk file. I know it says that it has and it caught me out to start with, but actually the speed that it is claiming it has backed up is ludicrous - over a 20Mb connection it claims to have copied data at 9.61MB/s - which is impossible.

For reference this is what I get as my Replicate summary for the only job which i use Reverse Incremental for:

Copy start time: 2012-09-26 01:30
Total files processed: 20
Total files transferred: 3
Total files size: 24.30 GB
Total files size transferred: 19.20 GB
Average speed: 9.61 MB/s
Exit code: 0 (Ok)
Copy end time: 2012-09-26 02:05

It does take longer as it does have to check the changes, in the above example the actual file that Veeam created was just under 400Mb. I believe the time taken is down to the effort put in to check the changes (Replicate is basically just a web based authentication to rsync from what I can gather). It certainly isn't shifting 24Gb of data over the WAN, or indeed the 19.2Gb it claims... that would take a lot longer.

Hopefully the same thing is catching you out...

Scott

P.S. Apologies, i've just seen that I have a PM!

travis.vanholland
Influencer
Posts: 13
Liked: 2 times
Joined: May 15, 2012 8:02 pm
Full Name: Travis Van Holland
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by travis.vanholland » Feb 05, 2013 6:30 pm

Scott,

Are you saying that you have the ReadyNAS to ReadyNAS rsync working? I am running Veeam 6.5 and am looking to implement the registry key to keep the file name from changing in hopes my reverse incrementals won't need to transfer the full VBK file. Any insight is appreciated.

Trav

scott_mac
Enthusiast
Posts: 31
Liked: 1 time
Joined: Aug 18, 2011 2:35 pm
Full Name: Scott Mckenzie
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by scott_mac » Feb 06, 2013 9:50 am

Hi Trav,

Yes, have been using it for a long time and now on v6.5 too... contact support and they'll let you know the registry change you need to make. 2 considerations for it though, 1. You'll need a stable WAN connection as fluctuations in line speed upset it a bit. 2. If using Reverse Incremental backups, get as much RAM as you can in the ReadyNAS as it's quite an intensive process going through the changes - as you can see from the above, I don't have a line that would offer 9.61MB/s, that was actually a calculation based on how long it should have taken to move that whole file when in fact it only shifted in that instance 350Mb but the time was down to the fact we only have 1Gb RAM in each ReadyNAS... i'm just investigating increasing it!

Scott

veremin
Product Manager
Posts: 17047
Liked: 1470 times
Joined: Oct 26, 2012 3:28 pm
Full Name: Vladimir Eremin
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by veremin » Feb 06, 2013 10:08 am 1 person likes this post

Hi, Travis.

As it has been already mentioned, you can implement a regkey described in the corresponding KB article which is responsible for setting previous naming convention.

This article can be found here - http://cp.veeam.com/knowledgebase/article/KB1076.

However, don’t forget a VBK-name will be changed only after performing a new Full backup and probable Veeam service restart.

Hope this helps.
Thanks.

dellock6
Veeam Software
Posts: 5783
Liked: 1654 times
Joined: Jul 26, 2009 3:39 pm
Full Name: Luca Dell'Oca
Location: Varese, Italy
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by dellock6 » Feb 06, 2013 1:15 pm

You will also have to run "remove from backups" to clean historical data, and keep the old chain somewhere until the new chain has enough restore point to satisfy your retention.

Luca.
Luca Dell'Oca
Principal EMEA Cloud Architect @ Veeam Software

@dellock6
https://www.virtualtothecore.com/
vExpert 2011 -> 2019
Veeam VMCE #1

travis.vanholland
Influencer
Posts: 13
Liked: 2 times
Joined: May 15, 2012 8:02 pm
Full Name: Travis Van Holland
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by travis.vanholland » Feb 06, 2013 10:42 pm 1 person likes this post

Thanks for the info Scott. I was mainly inquiring about the rsync operation from NAS to NAS only replicating changes and not the whole file. So to hear that you have it working is good news. Support actually told me that the reg key would not work in v6 or greater but I tested it in my lab and it works fine. I implemented the reg key today in production so hopefully I will see some promising results on the rsync job that runs tomorrow.

Not sure what you mean dellock in regards to the cleaning of historical data. Wouldn't this get cleaned up automatically after the new full chain has the required number of restore points (14 in my case using reversed incremental). I don't plan on doing new full backups as I don't have time to process all of that data in my 12 hour window. I'm fine with keeping the name of the most recent backup job though so not a huge deal.

dellock6
Veeam Software
Posts: 5783
Liked: 1654 times
Joined: Jul 26, 2009 3:39 pm
Full Name: Luca Dell'Oca
Location: Varese, Italy
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by dellock6 » Feb 07, 2013 9:13 am

read again the KB article, regardless the file name you desire, you need to remove older backups from the database to start using the new naming convention. It's not enough to simply change the registry key.

Luca.
Luca Dell'Oca
Principal EMEA Cloud Architect @ Veeam Software

@dellock6
https://www.virtualtothecore.com/
vExpert 2011 -> 2019
Veeam VMCE #1

travis.vanholland
Influencer
Posts: 13
Liked: 2 times
Joined: May 15, 2012 8:02 pm
Full Name: Travis Van Holland
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by travis.vanholland » Feb 07, 2013 2:54 pm

Ahh I see that now. I assumed v.Eremin linked in this kb article http://www.veeam.com/kb_articles.html/KB1193 which doesn't mention anything of historical data. Excuse my laziness :)

foggy
Veeam Software
Posts: 18430
Liked: 1587 times
Joined: Jul 11, 2011 10:22 am
Full Name: Alexander Fogelson
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by foggy » Feb 08, 2013 10:52 am

dellock6 wrote:read again the KB article, regardless the file name you desire, you need to remove older backups from the database to start using the new naming convention. It's not enough to simply change the registry key.
As I understand it, this was the case with the first version that implemented this key (v5.01), however removing backups from DB is not required starting from v5.02. Active full is enough.

dellock6
Veeam Software
Posts: 5783
Liked: 1654 times
Joined: Jul 26, 2009 3:39 pm
Full Name: Luca Dell'Oca
Location: Varese, Italy
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by dellock6 » Feb 10, 2013 9:47 pm

I understood it differently:
- remove from DB is always required
- before 5.02 you also had to wait for the next run and avoid run an active full, after 5.02 you can run the job in whatever mode and it will create the new file

Luca.
Luca Dell'Oca
Principal EMEA Cloud Architect @ Veeam Software

@dellock6
https://www.virtualtothecore.com/
vExpert 2011 -> 2019
Veeam VMCE #1

GL@MO
Enthusiast
Posts: 25
Liked: 2 times
Joined: Nov 02, 2012 9:04 pm
Location: Vreden, Germany
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by GL@MO » Feb 11, 2013 9:31 am

I have a QNAP TS 559 Pro II which is working excellent with VEEAM. It's a 5bay NAS in RAID5 mode with 3TB Seagate drives. Using a simple SMB Share for it where backups are transferred to.

drew.green@tjtpa.com
Enthusiast
Posts: 27
Liked: 3 times
Joined: Jan 26, 2010 4:41 pm
Full Name: Drew Green
Contact:

Re: External NAS Destination Stores

Post by drew.green@tjtpa.com » Feb 11, 2013 2:10 pm

Just wanted to add that we've recently added a Synology DS1812+ (8-bay) NAS w/ dual-gigabit (bonded) NICs. We've set this device up on a separate VLAN and are using Jumbo Frames (MTU 9000). This device has 8 500GB 10K VelociRaptor SATA drives in a RAID5 + hotspare. This was purchased as a replica target (using iSCSI). We've been running it for about 5 days and so far, so good! We now have replicas of every single one of our necessary VMs (excluding various management systems that don't effect the users).

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 57 guests