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DaStivi
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file-level recovery from Novell NSS volumes

Post by DaStivi » Feb 14, 2017 3:52 pm

Hello,
i'm currently evaluating Veeam B&R (9.5u1) so recover Files from Novell NSS volumes!
Veeam 9.5 update 1 release notes indicate that file-level recovery from NSS volumes with Trustee Index enabled, works with OES 2015SP1, i do have tested this now and it looks somehow good... with OES2013 i got some cryptic error when dooing file-level recovery...

so good so far.
BUT:

i do want to restore permissions, attributes and quotas too! this doesn't look like to work!
i only get the restored folders and inherit the permission from the parent, no special permission (trustee index) or special parameters like "rename locked" etc...

there should be an "easy" solutions allready as other backup vendors can use the novell advanced file attributes when backing up such machines with normal Linux agents...
novell describes this here:
https://www.novell.com/support/kb/doc.php?id=7004335

for my understanding, when Veeam would "restore" the "netware.metadata" correctly back to the nss volumes, oes should recognize the permissions and other settings again!

Mike Resseler
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Re: file-level recovery from Novell NSS volumes

Post by Mike Resseler » Feb 14, 2017 6:28 pm

Hi Stephan,

From our documentation: https://helpcenter.veeam.com/docs/backu ... tml?ver=95
Restore of NSS file/folder permissions is not supported
Brgds,
Mike

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Re: file-level recovery from Novell NSS volumes

Post by jmmarton » Feb 16, 2017 3:14 am

The permissions are stored in the backup since we do an image-based backup of the virtual disks. The problem comes from the restore process, especially since the restore option itself isn't available for NSS so you wind up having to do copy-to instead. I've made a feature request internally to add support for restore to original location. If that were done in such a way as to leverage xattr, then NSS permissions would be restored as well.

For now one thing you could do is leverage a pre-freeze script that calls metamig to dump all the trustees into a flat file. Then when you do a restore you could use this file to restore trustee permissions if inheritance doesn't take care of everything completely. Sample scripts are in the Veeam Hub under "Novell Application Consistency Scripts."

http://www.veeamhub.io/resources/

I touched on this in a Cool Solutions article I wrote in November.

https://www.novell.com/communities/cool ... 5-support/

Joe

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Re: file-level recovery from Novell NSS volumes

Post by DaStivi » Feb 16, 2017 2:05 pm

jmmarton wrote:The permissions are stored in the backup since we do an image-based backup of the virtual disks. The problem comes from the restore process, especially since the restore option itself isn't available for NSS so you wind up having to do copy-to instead. I've made a feature request internally to add support for restore to original location. If that were done in such a way as to leverage xattr, then NSS permissions would be restored as well.
exactly what i thougt... too sad that all the information is available but not write back correctly...
another workaround would be to start the oes vm in sandbox, or with different ip-adressing and copy-paste the files directly from there with novell-aware-browser tools... anyway all workarounds of course...

i know your blogpost and the comment from cool solutions allready, thx for it, at this pointed me to oes 2015sp1 too :)

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Re: file-level recovery from Novell NSS volumes

Post by calvertc » Feb 16, 2017 2:45 pm

All of our user files are stored on NSS, and I wouldn't have recently moved to Veeam if the NSS support weren't there. Ultimately, I'm pleased that Veeam has put the time into keeping the NSS code up-to-date in the last couple of releases, to support the new NSS versions in the latest OES releases, and that seems like the single most important thing to me. I agree though, it would certainly be nice if the metadata could be restored, considering it is sitting there in the backup, waiting to be used.

NSS on OES Linux doesn't have the market share that NetWare did, back in Novell's glory days, but the institutions that are using it are often very large (government and academic) and count their user-bases by the tens or even hundreds of thousands. I have to think that there is growth opportunity there for Veeam, if the product can meet people's needs well and offer feature parity.

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Re: file-level recovery from Novell NSS volumes

Post by joebrug » Feb 16, 2017 4:43 pm

While restoring files from an NSS volume works (slowly!), it could be so much better. The ability to restore to the original location, like you can with a windows box, is much needed and would be greatly appreciated for us NSS shops. Currently, we have to jump through too many hoops to restore files and then also have to deal with re-creating the trustees of those files/folders. Please make this process a little simpler.

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Re: file-level recovery from Novell NSS volumes

Post by DaStivi » Feb 16, 2017 6:45 pm

That's not true anymore!

With b&r 9.5u1 and oes 2015sp1 you can file restore directly!!, read my postings carefully ☺️

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Re: file-level recovery from Novell NSS volumes

Post by jmmarton » Feb 16, 2017 6:48 pm

DaStivi wrote:With b&r 9.5u1 and oes 2015sp1 you can file restore directly!!, read my postings carefully ☺️
Yes and no. During restore, you can't actually select the "restore" option to automatically restore to the original location. Using copy to you can still accomplish this by browsing the OES server and drilling down into the right directory where you need to restore the file (/media/nss/VOLUME/folder-structure-on-nss-volume). It just means doing a few additional steps for the restore.

Joe

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Re: file-level recovery from Novell NSS volumes

Post by DaStivi » Feb 16, 2017 6:51 pm

jmmarton wrote:Yes and no. During restore, you can't actually select the "restore" option to automatically restore to the original location.
In my lab exactly that works! Keep or overwrite no matter... No copy-to workaround needed...
With oes 2013 there were an error...

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Re: file-level recovery from Novell NSS volumes

Post by bpenris » Feb 16, 2017 7:13 pm

I'm going to chime in. This is a feature I personally consider a neccessity for most file systems. I usually backup trustees seperately anyways using built-in tools but that's more because the solutions that are out there are so flaky with it.

Hope this gets added (y)

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Re: file-level recovery from Novell NSS volumes

Post by jmmarton » Feb 16, 2017 7:23 pm

Hmm... I'd like to see that. Any way you can capture a movie showing the restore option working for NSS and send it to me? My e-mail address is joe dot marton at veeam dot com. Our docs say it doesn't work, and I've not been able to get it to work with either OES 11 or OES 2015, so I'd love to see if there's a way to make it work.

Joe

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Re: file-level recovery from Novell NSS volumes

Post by DaStivi » Feb 16, 2017 8:41 pm 1 person likes this post

i do this now like mike ressler... from veeam 9.5u1 release notes and even from 9.5 documentation:
Open Enterprise Server 2015 SP1 support for file-level recovery from NSS volumes with Trustee Index enabled.


:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
only how to read the things correctly... anyway i can make a vid of course... i'm gonna send it to you tomorrow... we can also do a remote session if you would like to...
jmmarton wrote: drilling down into the right directory where you need to restore the file (/media/nss/VOLUME/folder-structure-on-nss-volume).
btw i've done this in oes2013... i'd saw the folder/files in Linux but not under novell clients or imanager... (so additional steps are necessary then, manually editing the xml file or dooing something else... at least when using new name, or original folder was gonna delete completely before..)

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Re: file-level recovery from Novell NSS volumes

Post by jmmarton » Feb 17, 2017 5:52 am

Oh trust me I know what's in the 9.5u1 release notes. I helped put the wording together for the OES 2015 bullet point in the release notes. :-) What that's referring to is the ability to do any FLR activity at all on a volume with Trustee Index enabled. If you were to try FLR with 9.5 (before Update 1) against OES 2015 SP1 where that feature had been enabled, the Backup Browser window wouldn't even display the NSS volume. With the support, the NSS volume shows up.

But to what you've been mentioning, I did some testing again in my lab. Everything was done with 9.5u1 and OES 2015 SP1 with three different volumes (32-bit non-AD-enabled, 32-bit AD-enabled, 64-bit AD-enabled). I was surprised to see I could use the restore option in VBR to restore to the original location! This is new behavior from how it used to be. I will ask to get the documentation updated.

https://helpcenter.veeam.com/docs/backu ... tml?ver=95

We need to remove the line stating "You also cannot restore files directly to the original location from NSS filesystems."

In my testing I restored individual files and entire folders. All worked. And using the OES client from a workstation, after I restored anything once I hit F5 to refresh my Windows Explorer window I saw the restored files/folders show up immediately. I'm not sure why you didn't see your restored data appear immediately so that may be worth troubleshooting.

At any rate, no need to send a movie as I definitely believe you. :-) Permissions still aren't restored, but since restore to original location is working, that's one step closer to possibly getting permissions restored someday. I'll see what I can dig up on exactly how we're copying the data back to the OES server and see if it would be possible to leverage xattr to eventually get permissions restored, too.

Joe

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Re: file-level recovery from Novell NSS volumes

Post by DerOest » Feb 17, 2017 12:44 pm

Sadly we can not use the "Restore" function but must use the copy-to-workaround.
Why? Because we use (Netapp) storage snapshots of our Novell OES Fileserver datastores (each fileserver has its own VMware Datastore/Volume on Netapp). If i try to restore from a from secondary storage snapshot (SnapVault target), the error is:
"Cannot map VM files to any existing VM in the virtual infrastructure"

Another tradeoff to using storage snapshots: We can not run guest file indexing, instead i had to script our own guest file indexing with updatedb/locate.
Again, as noted in other threads, this is a shame, as all the processing can also happen when taking storage snapshots! And I think I even saw the "guest file indexing" work being done when using snapshot orchestration, just the updatedb/locate-files are not saved anywhere for later use.


Because of the tradeoffs, using "Veeam Storage Snapshot Orchestration" was dropped, we simply run Netapp Snapshot/SnapVault like before.
All controllers are added to Veeam and Volumes/Snapshots get scanned, so we can just select individual Snapshots to run restores from.

If Veeam did a better integration or even just made the same features available with storage snapshots vs. Veeam backupjobs, we'd consider changing the scheduling over to Veeam. But the way it is now, it's not worth the hassle to get everything into Veeam.

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Re: file-level recovery from Novell NSS volumes

Post by jmmarton » Feb 17, 2017 1:51 pm

That's good to know about restoring NSS files from NetApp snapshots. I assume the same holds true of all the other vendors we integrate with as well. I'll see if I can find a way to do additional testing on this.

As to indexing, that's a known limitation of storage snapshot orchestration jobs with NetApp and Nimble in general. It is not specific to OES. I believe there are other threads on this issue, so let's please not cloud this thread which is specific to OES & NSS support. Rather please start a separate thread on that (it's an interesting feature request for certain).

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Re: file-level recovery from Novell NSS volumes

Post by DaStivi » Feb 22, 2017 8:18 am

"Cannot map VM files to any existing VM in the virtual infrastructure"
maybe this could be resolved too....

i know this error message from SharePoint restore... i've currently ah case to resolve this message... there should be a regkey to map vms to such "Backups".... i don't know yet if this is only for SharePoint, as the known regkeys from community forums does not work on SharePoint... but anyway it could be good to open a case and let Veeam investigate if there is a fix for this!

about indexing... as far this is true... indexing does not work because mlocate is not available in sles11 as there is only normal locate bin....

you can install mlocate from opensles but the packages are not compatible with the oes/novell packages!! so thats not a solution!

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Re: file-level recovery from Novell NSS volumes

Post by DerOest » Feb 22, 2017 9:15 am

Well, i guess the "cannot map" stems from us not backing it up in a Veeam job (with Snapshot/SnapVault), but only run it on Netapps side and then for restores just select a Storage Snapshot that Veeam scanned.
Technically, sure, this could easily be mapped, but i did not really expect Veeam to do it because we don't use Veeam itself for the backup process in this case.


Indexing and mlocate: Yes this does work with SLES/OES! I had it running, indexing worked - but that requires a "Veeam Backup Job" without storage integration (so doing real copies :evil: ).
As soon as you configure the Snapshot/SnapVault/use SnapVault as Source, in the next job-config sections you can not select "guest file indexing" anymore.
-> And Veeam Backup jobs are soooo much less efficient than just a Netapp SnapVault, so we decided to completely ditch Veeam for this part.

To get mlocate running with SLES11 SP3/OES11, i did this:

Code: Select all

 downloaded mlocate-0.26-64.1.x86_64.rpm from http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/server:/search/SLE_11_SP3/x86_64/

rpm -i mlocate-0.26-64.1.x86_64.rpm

vi /etc/sysconfig/locate
   RUN_UPDATEDB_AS=root
   UPDATEDB_PRUNEPATHS -> had to remove /media, because our NSS Volumes are mounted below /media/nss/
Now, that works for Veeam, but as we don't use Veeam for this, i run a cronjob just for the NSS Volume with /usr/bin/updatedb --localpaths=/media/nss/VOLUME/
I then harvest the resulting /var/lib/locatedb to a central repository (sorted by OES server, with date/timestamps), se we can search for files manually.

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Re: file-level recovery from Novell NSS volumes

Post by DaStivi » Feb 22, 2017 9:27 am

opensles mlocate did not worked propaply on my lab installation... as installing the requirements for mlocate said it would need to uninstall some oes components!

Code: Select all

#### YaST2 conflicts list - generated 2017-02-22 10:23:13 ####

mlocate-0.26-23.4.x86_64 benötigt libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.14)(64bit), kann jedoch nicht zur Verfügung gestellt werden
Deinstallierbare Anbieter: glibc-2.22-3.7.x86_64[openSUSE:Leap:42.2]
    [ ] Folgende Aktionen werden ausgeführt:
Deinstallation von sysvinit-2.86-219.37.x86_64
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Deinstallation von yast2-novell-ifolder3-2.17.1-0.16.75.noarch
Deinstallation von yast2-novell-edirectory-2.17.1-0.16.110.noarch
Deinstallation von yast2-novell-dns-2.17.1-0.16.75.noarch
Deinstallation von yast2-novell-dhcp-2.17.1-0.16.75.noarch
Deinstallation von yast2-novell-cifs-2.17.1-0.16.75.noarch
Deinstallation von yast2-novell-afp-2.17.1-0.16.75.noarch
Deinstallation von yast2-ldap-client-2.17.39-12.1.noarch
Deinstallation von novell-migration-ntp-2.4.0-0.7.149.noarch
Deinstallation von autoyast2-2.17.76-1.20.noarch
Deinstallation von yast2-registration-branding-SLE-2.17.38-0.8.43.noarch
Deinstallation von yast2-online-update-frontend-2.17.24-1.82.noarch
Deinstallation von product:Open_Enterprise_Server-2015.1-1.141.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-web-base-2.6.0-0.9.53.noarch
Deinstallation von yast2-control-center-gnome-2.13.4-1.9.43.x86_64
Deinstallation von product:Open_Enterprise_Server-2015.1-1.141.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-web-config-2.8.0-0.17.45.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-welcomepage-2.7.1-0.30.3.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-imanager-2.7.7-0.47.19.noarch
Deinstallation von novell-dnsdhcp-javaconsole-2.4.1-0.70.3.x86_64
Deinstallation von storage-iman-3.11.0-0.38.30.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-wanman-2.7-64.140.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-snmp-2.7-64.148.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-sms-1.4.0-0.15.80.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-single-2.7-10.32.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-service-manager-2.7-65.164.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-rwiz-2.7-64.142.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-repair-2.7-64.209.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-qfsearch-1.0.3-15.115.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-priority-sync-2.7-64.140.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-pki-8.8.8.7-0.13.19.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-nss-3.11.1-0.11.17.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-nmas-8.8.8.1-0.19.120.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-merge-2.7-60.37.210.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-ldap-2.7-80.85.159.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-kerberos-2.7-70.121.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-instrumentation-2.7-0.27.84.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-indexmanager-2.7-80.169.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-ifolder3-1.2.0-71.78.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-ice-2.7-68.135.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-fileman-1.8.0-0.46.11.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-encrypted-replication-2.7-64.144.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-encrypted-attributes-2.7-64.148.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-edir-extended-2.7-91.162.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-dns-2.4.0-0.20.84.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-dhcp-2.4.0-0.20.81.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-dfs-1.4.0-0.77.10.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-cluster-services-3.10.1-0.34.9.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-case-sensitive-password-2.7-64.148.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-backup-restore-2.7-64.210.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-arkmanager-3.3.0-6.20.120.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-afp-1.5.1-0.27.21.x86_64
Deinstallation von novell-usermanagement-imanager-plugin-2.6.0-0.57.19.noarch
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-samba-1.4.0-0.11.118.noarch
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-netstorage-3.8.0-0.19.32.noarch
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-cifs-2.4.1-0.27.11.noarch
Deinstallation von novell-plugin-base-2.7.7-0.47.19.noarch
Deinstallation von novell-iprint-management-6.12.1-0.9.11.noarch
Deinstallation von at-spi-lang-1.28.1-0.1.161.x86_64
Deinstallation von gnome-mag-0.16.0-2.2.38.x86_64
Deinstallation von gok-2.28.1-0.3.51.x86_64
Deinstallation von gnome-mag-lang-0.16.0-2.2.38.x86_64
Deinstallation von gok-lang-2.28.1-0.3.51.x86_64
Deinstallation von gedit-lang-2.28.3-0.8.1.x86_64
    [ ] Deinstallation von nscd-2.11.3-17.84.1.x86_64

    [ ] mlocate-0.26-23.4.x86_64 nicht installieren

    [ ] mlocate-0.26-23.4.x86_64 durch Ignorieren einiger Abhängigkeiten brechen




#### YaST2 conflicts list END ###

jmmarton
Veeam Software
Posts: 1655
Liked: 224 times
Joined: Nov 17, 2015 2:38 am
Full Name: Joe Marton
Location: Chicago, IL
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Re: file-level recovery from Novell NSS volumes

Post by jmmarton » Feb 22, 2017 6:12 pm

I also have mlocate running on my two OES servers (2015 & 2015 SP1). They installed without issue as I recall. I used the same download location to grab a pre-built package for SLES 11 SP3 (OES 2015). As I recall the same package also worked on SLES 11 SP4 (OES 2015 SP1). There's a thread in SUSE's forums on this topic.

https://forums.suse.com/showthread.php? ... for-SLES11

I don't recall any dependency issues when I installed it. I don't recall doing any special configuration afterword, either.

Joe

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