Google NearLine

Availability for the Always-On Enterprise

Google NearLine

Veeam Logoby Kris » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:08 am

Hiya all,

We are using Veeam B&R on VSphere5 in a very traditional way: BU2disk --> BU2disk --> BU2Tape.
As prices are dropping on Cloud Storage, this becomes more and more interesting.
For instance, Google Nearline (https://cloud.google.com/storage/pricin ... g-examples) is offering storage at $0.01/GB ($10.00/TB)

I was wondering if it is possible for Veeam B&R to offload backups to cloud storage such as Google Nearline (instead of tape), or maybe someone is already using this?

Thanks!
Kris
Kris
Novice
 
Posts: 3
Liked: never
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:51 am
Full Name: Kris ten Hoedt

Re: Google NearLine

Veeam Logoby Shestakov » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:11 am

Hi Kris,
I believe Google NearLine is not among our partners so far. But there are lots of other cloud connect service providers. Check the link to find a provider in your country. Once you decided to go for a cloud, deployment scenario is explained here.
Thanks.
Shestakov
Veeam Software
 
Posts: 4842
Liked: 393 times
Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 11:03 am
Location: Saint Petersburg
Full Name: Nikita Shestakov

Re: Google NearLine

Veeam Logoby Kris » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:18 am

Hi Nikita,

Is a partnership with Veeam the only way to enable any BU2Cloud kind of solution?
Or are there other scenarios thinkable, like a CIFS, iSCSI or whatever kind of connection to a Cloud storage thingy?
(just brainstorming here :-) )

Thanks,
Kris
Kris
Novice
 
Posts: 3
Liked: never
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:51 am
Full Name: Kris ten Hoedt

Re: Google NearLine

Veeam Logoby Shestakov » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:46 am

Kris wrote:Is a partnership with Veeam the only way to enable any BU2Cloud kind of solution?

Yes, because Service Providers(SP) need to run related services to supply the cloud connect. Aslo SPs support such features as WAN Acceleration, Instant provisioning etc.
Thanks.
Shestakov
Veeam Software
 
Posts: 4842
Liked: 393 times
Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 11:03 am
Location: Saint Petersburg
Full Name: Nikita Shestakov

Re: Google NearLine

Veeam Logoby Vitaliy S. » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:49 am

Kris wrote:I was wondering if it is possible for Veeam B&R to offload backups to cloud storage such as Google Nearline (instead of tape), or maybe someone is already using this?

If you can expose this storage via CIFS or attach it to the Windows box, you will be able to use it as target storage for Veeam backups.
Vitaliy S.
Veeam Software
 
Posts: 19536
Liked: 1097 times
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:13 am
Full Name: Vitaliy Safarov

Re: Google NearLine

Veeam Logoby Kris » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:22 pm

Thanks for the info.

I'm also looking at Amazon's Glacier, which is in the same ballpark and definately offers CIFS/iSCSI/NFS sorta connectivity.
It will be very interesting to see if and how this works out.
Kris
Novice
 
Posts: 3
Liked: never
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:51 am
Full Name: Kris ten Hoedt

Re: Google NearLine

Veeam Logoby dellock6 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:57 am

Glacier per se doesn't offer any traditional connectivity, just like Google Nearline. But there are around tens of solutions to connect to those cloud storage solutions and expose them locally as a SMB/iscsi/NFS share. To name few, twinstrata, aws gateway, ctera, storsimple, steelstore....
What Nikita is listing to you are service providers running Veeam Cloud Connect, but this cannot be done on Google cloud.

Luca
Luca Dell'Oca
EMEA Cloud Architect @ Veeam Software

@dellock6
http://www.virtualtothecore.com
vExpert 2011-2012-2013-2014-2015-2016
Veeam VMCE #1
dellock6
Veeam Software
 
Posts: 5047
Liked: 1330 times
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:39 pm
Location: Varese, Italy
Full Name: Luca Dell'Oca

Re: Google NearLine

Veeam Logoby Meyercord » Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:10 pm 1 person likes this post

Amazon Storage Gateway VTL (virtual tape library) might give you something like what you want. I don't believe Google has a comparable product yet, but I imagine it's coming soon.

The Storage Gateway VTL is an appliance you install on a VMware or HyperV host for $125/mo. You connect it to the Amazon S3 cloud, assign it some local cache storage (for low latency data) and some storage for an upload buffer and then it exposes a media changer and tape drives via iSCSI that you can attach through VEEAM. From the Amazon console, you then create virtual tapes which you can import into VEEAM and use just like normal tapes. The virtual library can hold 1500 tapes, and while the tapes are in the library, the data is stored in S3 at $0.03/GB/mo. If you export the tape from the library, it is moved to the "Virtual Tape Shelf", which transfers the data from S3 to Glacier, where it costs $0.01/GB/mo, the same as Google nearline.

Tapes in the Virtual tape Shelf at Glacier can later be imported back into the library as read-only tapes, but the download costs $0.09 per gigabyte and retrieval is slow. Also, because Veeam cannot perform direct restore from tape, restoring even a single file from a virtual tape would require retrieving all tapes in the backup set, writing all of the data to local disk and then performing the restore from disk. This means that you need a large enough cache to hold all of the tapes at once, plus additional disk storage to write it all back again.

I would consider VTL a good solution for highly redundant offsite storage of data that you plan to never access again, but are required by policy to retain. But its not especially cheap and if you ever do have to retrieve an archived tape from Glacier, it can potentially be very expensive and time consuming.

Amazon Announces Gateway-Virtual Tape Library (Gateway-VTL)
AWS Storage Gateway Pricing
Meyercord
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 35
Liked: 6 times
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:31 pm
Full Name: AJ Meyercord

Re: Google NearLine

Veeam Logoby tommls » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:18 pm

Did Google (or ANYone) ever come out with anything to make Google cloud storage more 'compatible' with Veeam??

The most I can see so far is to copy a backup copy job's contents to Nearline or DRA, then bring it back down to local storage when/if necessary to restore therefrom.

Thank you, Tom
tommls
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 26
Liked: never
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:52 pm
Full Name: Tom Lyczko

Re: Google NearLine

Veeam Logoby mongie » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:15 pm

Tom, it can be slightly more automated than that...

I believe TwinStrata (and probably others) support Google Nearline, however there is a difference between Google Nearline + iSCSI Gateway and Veeam Cloud Connect.

With Nearline + iSCSI Gateway, your cloud storage appears as a normal Windows volume, and the gateway manages the translation from Block to Object storage. This is good in theory, but if you have a 1TB Backup file on your cloud storage and need to perform a file level recovery, you must download the whole backup file first (this is handled by the iSCSI Gateway, but is normally slow).

Veeam Cloud Connect is a less convenient, more expensive, channel based solution where the vendor can offer cloud storage (and in V9, replication and VM hosting I believe) along with some Veeam smarts in the cloud. This allows you to mount the backup files on the internet and only retrieve what you need. You can also use the WAN Optimisation feature to reduce the amount of traffic sent to the cloud provider.


Here is the calculation you have to do to find out whats best for you.

Google Nearline is 1c/GB. (Backblaze now offer cloud storage for $0.005c/GB). You also need a cloud gateway. The AWS gateway is $125/month, but it only works with AWS. There are 3rd party options available for other providers - EMC Twinstrata Cloud Gateway, NetApp AltaVault, etc.

Veeam Cloud Connect tends to be ~ 12c/GB+ (and sometimes there are per VM fees too)

If you have a very fast internet connection (actual speed required will depend on the size of your backup storage, but 100Mb+), the Google/AWS/Backblaze might work for you. It can certainly work, but you have to pay attention to the restore time. Veeam Cloud Connect will also work well, but can be 10x more expensive.

If you have a slow internet connection (Less than 100Mb), you could use Veeam Cloud Connect, but keep in mind your full restores are going to take time.



I hope this brain dump can help you.,
mongie
Expert
 
Posts: 149
Liked: 23 times
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 4:00 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Full Name: Alex Macaronis

Re: Google NearLine

Veeam Logoby Meyercord » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:27 pm

mongie wrote:Veeam Cloud Connect is a less convenient, more expensive, channel based solution where the vendor can offer cloud storage (and in V9, replication and VM hosting I believe) along with some Veeam smarts in the cloud. This allows you to mount the backup files on the internet and only retrieve what you need. You can also use the WAN Optimisation feature to reduce the amount of traffic sent to the cloud provider.

Do you know if this can be "faked" with something like a cloud-hosted VM running a VEEAM proxy with WAN optimization and high-speed connection to backend cloud storage? Maybe something like an AWS EC2 instance with S3 storage buckets? Would this approximate the Cloud Connect features while allowing vendor-neutral storage, or is there some other benefit to the Cloud Connect service that would be missing from this arrangement?
Meyercord
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 35
Liked: 6 times
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:31 pm
Full Name: AJ Meyercord

Re: Google NearLine

Veeam Logoby Gostev » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:34 pm

mongie wrote:Veeam Cloud Connect is a less convenient

I would argue this part - as according to all polls, number one reason (and by far) for users to choose Veeam Cloud Connect over alternatives is specifically convenience and simplicity (due to the complete integration).

Overall, comparing Veeam Cloud Connect with "dumb" cloud storage will probably make a good VeeamON breakout session due to the amount of factors and features to be considered. You are listing a few VCC benefits, but there are definitely more to consider. For example, other solutions will not offer you periodic in-cloud backup health check with automated remediation (self healing), which is pretty important if you ask me - because what is the point in backups if you can't recover from them?

Even more importantly, the restore time... you have already mentioned the issue of having to download the entire backup file chain before the restore can be initiated with alternative solutions. With Veeam Cloud Connect, you can restore just what's needed directly from the cloud (single VM, single file and even an application item).

And there are many, many more considerations - both technical and procedural... I am not even attempting to have the detailed discussion on this topic over forum posts ;)

Bottom line, looking at price alone is a wrong thing to do... if you are looking to save money - just don't do cloud backups at all. But if you decide to invest in cloud backups, you'd better make sure you are not throwing your money away for nothing (even if little money).

Nevertheless, it is a very useful brain dump, so thanks for taking time to post this!
Gostev
Veeam Software
 
Posts: 21385
Liked: 2348 times
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 1:01 am
Location: Baar, Switzerland

Re: Google NearLine

Veeam Logoby dellock6 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:54 am

Well, the list of things you need to deploy yourself in a VM running in a cloud provider to make it a remote repository, by itself are already a lists of things you do not have to do with VCC. And that VM also needs to be managed once it's running (monitoring, patching, check for free space left and add additional disks to a point where a VM in the cloud usually cannot add more disks). This is comparable to having a server in a colocation, just in the fashion of a virtual machine. But still you have capex to pay for. With VCC, it's a pure pay-as-you-go.

Also, another important aspect that we always list is connectivity: you need to setup VPNs to reach VMs in the cloud, while with VCC you only need a straight TCP connection over the internet.

Finally, price is heavily dependant on the business plan of the provider offering Cloud Connect, but I've seen some providers able to offer really low prices per GB. And as Anton said, pure price per GB is not a fair comparison - even due to additional in-cloud compute requirement for VCC, which increases costs for a service provider.
Luca Dell'Oca
EMEA Cloud Architect @ Veeam Software

@dellock6
http://www.virtualtothecore.com
vExpert 2011-2012-2013-2014-2015-2016
Veeam VMCE #1
dellock6
Veeam Software
 
Posts: 5047
Liked: 1330 times
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:39 pm
Location: Varese, Italy
Full Name: Luca Dell'Oca

Re: Google NearLine

Veeam Logoby v.Eremin » Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:06 am

Also, it's not a fair comparison, especially, when someone operates with the costs given by S3 or Glacier. While doing that, overwhelming majority of users tend to forget about the prices they will be charged with whenever the restoration need arises.

I'm not agitating for one solution or the other, just keep in mind that sometimes there is something else hiding behind low prices, such as download traffic prices or similar.

Thanks.
v.Eremin
Veeam Software
 
Posts: 13255
Liked: 966 times
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:28 pm
Full Name: Vladimir Eremin

Re: Google NearLine

Veeam Logoby tommls » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:35 pm

I think Nearline may be more useful for storing the results of backup COPY jobs aka 'archive' jobs than backups (fulls with incrementals), e.g. having the archives on local storage plus an offsite copy of the archives.
Then the file sizes and Internet speeds become the issue.
Thank you, Tom
tommls
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 26
Liked: never
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:52 pm
Full Name: Tom Lyczko

Next

Return to Veeam Backup & Replication



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: gcarter, Google [Bot], iostrikov, mairj, odruard, salyerma, Yahoo [Bot] and 58 guests