Integration with Storage Snapshots : Vendor Roadmap

Availability for the Always-On Enterprise

Re: Integration with Storage Snapshots : Vendor Roadmap

Veeam Logoby MichaelCade » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:58 pm

John whilst I hear your points, could we maybe explore this topic further around the features you feel you are missing or is it due to performance impact and reducing the vSphere VM snapshot life span?

The universal storage API is new for us at Veeam so we are unable to deliver this or make it open for all, also due to the process of once the vendor has completed the integration with the API it needs to go through our QC channels before being released to the public. This may seem like a bottleneck but this is to ensure our customers have the best possible experience with their integrations.

If it is performance related then I myself would be more than happy to assist with your configuration to ensure it is configured to best practices.
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Re: Integration with Storage Snapshots : Vendor Roadmap

Veeam Logoby foggy » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:54 pm

Only a month after releasing the first third-party storage plug-in for Veeam B&R and today we announce availability of the next one!

Pure Storage Plug-In for Veeam Backup & Replication is already available for download.

And we're not going to stop here. Stay tuned!
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Re: Integration with Storage Snapshots : Vendor Roadmap

Veeam Logoby Goodmanr0732 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:42 am

Is there any integration planed for EMC VMAX storage arrays?
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Re: Integration with Storage Snapshots : Vendor Roadmap

Veeam Logoby foggy » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:51 pm

Hi Ryan, unfortunately, we do not share our plans prior to official announcements.
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Re: Integration with Storage Snapshots : Vendor Roadmap

Veeam Logoby jhouse » Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:04 pm

Gostev I answered you on this and no responce then I must be right?
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Re: Integration with Storage Snapshots : Vendor Roadmap

Veeam Logoby Gostev » Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:11 pm

Hi John, actually you did not answer my two very specific questions - your response was totally unrelated. To me, this was an indication that you didn't have good answers proving your previous points, and thus were trying to change the conversation completely. This is why I didn't respond. Thanks!
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Re: Integration with Storage Snapshots : Vendor Roadmap

Veeam Logoby csydas » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:04 pm 2 people like this post

jhouse wrote:Gostev I answered you on this and no responce then I must be right?

Let's try to keep the conversation a bit above reddit level debate...

What is your big deal with Tegile, John? Or better yet, the big deal with rushing out the integration?

Just from my point of view with IT, I've been doing it for a long time, and I want to see things done slowly and deliberately. I deplore what Facebook, Google, and other modern tech companies have done with their stupid idea of "move fast and break things" because all that happens is that shit breaks and the company washes their hands of it because they've already moved on to the next big thing. Rolling Release is untested release, and while it's cool to be able to feed features at a rapid rate for trivial applications, a Web Browser is a completely different beast than a Hypervisor, and that means a different beast than a Hypervisor backup. If your Web Browser renders stuff a little off or hijacks scrolling, in the end you just have a poor user experience, not a data corrupting catastrophe.

With all due respect to Veeam's RnD, we've seen what happens when stuff gets rushed out the door from Veeam, and it isn't pretty. The last thing I want is rapid releases of Storage Integration without proven experience and history behind it. If my team were running Infinidat or Pure, we'd be testing the hell out of it for months before relying on it for production backups. I don't care about what Veeam's RnD can do for the 40m, I care what their marathon looks like. I wanna see what their software looks like after 100,000 backups and 1,000,000 restores. I wanna see what headaches the IT community as a whole ran into during testing (or those bold enough to install and go straight away with production). I don't care if it takes them a year or a decade, I just want to know that the last thing I have to worry about when my production goes down is whether or not the backup software is gonna work right.

From my point of view, these storage plugin's are pretty new territory for the Veeam guys, so it makes sense that they wanna take things slow at first, especially since Netapp, EMC, et. al. all have the weight of monolithic companies behind them to force non-standard practices in their hardware/software. I certainly hope that Veeam resists the urge to start crapping out plug-ins just to meet sales promises, cause that more than anything would make me lose faith in the company.
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Re: Integration with Storage Snapshots : Vendor Roadmap

Veeam Logoby serkantek » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:31 pm

v.Eremin wrote:Are you utilizing NAS device as a production datastore?

Yes, Qnap Enterprise Storage is being used in our environment for a couple of production servers. Most of our production workloads are on IBM v7000 Gen 2 which is working perfectly with Veeam storage snapshots.
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Re: Integration with Storage Snapshots : Vendor Roadmap

Veeam Logoby ProdigyNB » Tue May 15, 2018 8:11 am

MichaelCade wrote:The universal storage API is new for us at Veeam so we are unable to deliver this or make it open for all, also due to the process of once the vendor has completed the integration with the API it needs to go through our QC channels before being released to the public. This may seem like a bottleneck but this is to ensure our customers have the best possible experience with their integrations.

Throwing my 2c in here - the obvious solution is to make storage vendors responsible for supporting their integrations, making the integration API a public and open document, and then having the QC process available as a certification process to make the integrations available via Veeam itself. Running uncertified integrations would then have flow on effect with regard to support agreements.

So for example, Pure Storage has gone through the QC process, so it's available as a fully supported integration via Veeam's site.

Lets say however, Tegile wants to get their integration module out there faster. It can use the published API to build its own integration, available direct from Tegile. Any support for that integration module would then be provided from Tegile and if Veeam needed to provide support for an environment where the Tegile integration was installed, it could require the Tegile module removed and the problem to be reproduced on a "stock" system to continue with the support ticket.
Later on, when Veeam has the available resources, and Tegile has the funds and time, the QC process can be invoked to produce a Veeam-approved-and-supported version of the integration plugin. Tegile may then choose to work purely through the Veeam program or have a two-stream approach where there's a "bleeding edge" Tegile integration module and a fully supported but somewhat lagged behind Veeam approved version.

This would also permit smaller, F/OSS storage systems (or even in-house custom storage solutions) to develop/release their own integrations for Veeam. The number of vendors supporting Veeam would then be greater, and this would help drive Veeam sales. Having open integration specs will also increase goodwill in the communities around those storage systems.

Let people make their own decisions about whether to sacrifice full Veeam support for better integration, and Veeam will ultimately reap the rewards.
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Re: Integration with Storage Snapshots : Vendor Roadmap

Veeam Logoby Andreas Neufert » Tue May 15, 2018 7:53 pm

Hi Prodigy,

thanks for the feedback.

Beside some legal issues related to patented technology and support statements, our experience in the past showed clearly that we can not open up this program to a public available API.
1) As all storage systems are pretty unique, we sometimes need to change some things on our side for the vendor.
2) There is a lot room for interpretation in some of the scenarios and our QA team has huge experience in finding the corner cases that our customer would face later. You can not expect to write down this experience into a paper and expect that the outcome would have the same quality.
3) It is our reputation that would be affected when something is not working as expected. You could be easily only face the issue when something broke and you need an restore from a non working restore point.
4) The interaction with the vendors related to dev/qa questions, demos, documentation, marketing is huge and we can scale only to a specific extend.

That said we will continue with nearly same release speed this year and several vendors/storages are on their way in different stages.
We increased our Storage integration rate with this project by several times and continue with it.

... and we will not stop there and increase the value for our customers over time with additional functionality in a way that it would not be possible at a public API.
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Re: Integration with Storage Snapshots : Vendor Roadmap

Veeam Logoby jhouse » Mon May 21, 2018 11:59 am

I think the issue right now is for Veeam never put together software that excludes other Hardware Storage Vendors (Tegile) if they want to remain hardware neutral. It causes them to play favorites which is not the way to remain hardware neutral as they can see it has caused them a lot of pain.
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Re: Integration with Storage Snapshots : Vendor Roadmap

Veeam Logoby Andreas Neufert » Tue May 22, 2018 12:58 pm

I see your point and we are doing something against this. As said, we released in the past one vendor integration per year. Now we will end up with 5-10 per year, which is a huge acceleration.

To not open the SDK/API public has legal and quality reasons (see above). Mainly the quality ones block us from doing it, as customer satisfaction is top priority for us.

But anyway if you look at the acceleration, we will have all the big and small vendors covered within a foreseeable time frame.
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Re: Integration with Storage Snapshots : Vendor Roadmap

Veeam Logoby sirijusdailidonis » Wed May 23, 2018 6:46 am

+1 for Storage integration with Huawei OceanStore 5xxx and 6800
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Re: Integration with Storage Snapshots : Vendor Roadmap

Veeam Logoby dharenkamp » Wed May 23, 2018 3:47 pm

Is there anything planned to support NetApp volumes with Snapmirror / Snapvault that are not used for VMs like CIFS or NFS Volumes?
If not -> this is a feature request ;-)
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Re: Integration with Storage Snapshots : Vendor Roadmap

Veeam Logoby Andreas Neufert » Wed May 23, 2018 5:34 pm

thx ... noted... Can you please describe the scenario ... what functionality do you request? For which type of data?
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