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tfloor
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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by tfloor »

Seb,

Cool maybe I can use portlock. Can you give me a link to what I have to download for trial it.
I saw most of the time weird bootcd's. But I except a windows tool where I can open a vmdk to restore nss files.
Please help me to get the right thing to download / trial.

I only see this. But I can't anything with this
http://www.portlock.com/products/boot_c ... _explorer/

Please help

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by spgsit5upport »

Exactly, you download WinPE boot CD, you boot to it & Portlock Explorer CAN read NSS volume, as simple as that

So I do it with SAN snapshot, but it is exactly the same for vmdk
You spin a VM (configured for Windows 7 x74), attach NSS volume vmdk, boot from iso, access NSS volume (not the fastest if the volume is large (ie 2 Tb), copy the data to network location (another Windows share)

Not the quickest solution, but the ONLY one available (unless Veeam licence technology from Portlock to read NSS - most likely never)

In fact it would be beneficial to us using NSS if during FLR in Veeam one could specify that it will be NSS filesystem & the appliance created used Portlock BootCD (and NOT its own Linux boot CD)

This way file restore would be possible from Veeam (almost directly)

Seb

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by tsightler »

spgsit5upport wrote:In fact it would be beneficial to us using NSS if during FLR in Veeam one could specify that it will be NSS filesystem & the appliance created used Portlock BootCD (and NOT its own Linux boot CD)
If you willing to get creative it would be pretty easy to script this today via PowerShell.

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by spgsit5upport »

First I need to understand how the backup of the VM gets mounted via NFS (and not the extracted vmdk)

Seb

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by tfloor »

spgsit5upport wrote:Exactly, you download WinPE boot CD, you boot to it & Portlock Explorer CAN read NSS volume, as simple as that

So I do it with SAN snapshot, but it is exactly the same for vmdk
You spin a VM (configured for Windows 7 x74), attach NSS volume vmdk, boot from iso, access NSS volume (not the fastest if the volume is large (ie 2 Tb), copy the data to network location (another Windows share)

Not the quickest solution, but the ONLY one available (unless Veeam licence technology from Portlock to read NSS - most likely never)

In fact it would be beneficial to us using NSS if during FLR in Veeam one could specify that it will be NSS filesystem & the appliance created used Portlock BootCD (and NOT its own Linux boot CD)

This way file restore would be possible from Veeam (almost directly)

Seb
Seb. I will definitely try this again tomorrow and hope I can do a restore with the trial. I see a huge limitation on the trial.
I will post my experiences here.
Thanks for the short instruction.

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by tsightler »

spgsit5upport wrote:First I need to understand how the backup of the VM gets mounted via NFS (and not the extracted vmdk)
I'm curious, why do you need to know this? All you need to do is script an "Instant Restore" of the VM via Powershell, this will automatically mount the VM backup via NFS. You don't need to know the guts of how it works to script this. There's some sample code in this thread. I'm not sure if that code will work with V6 without some minor changes, and you'd want to set the instant restore -Powerup and -Network options to false, but at that point it would only take a few lines of PowerCLI magic to hotadd the disk to any VM you want, including your PortLock VM.

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by spgsit5upport »

Thanks, will look into it

http://www.veeam.com/veeam_powershell_pg.pdf

Seb

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by eheiger »

I work at the University of Maryland in Baltimore, Maryland and we just purchased Veeam. I was disappointed to see that I can't restore files/data from nss volumes. In the School of Medicine we still have plenty of Novell servers/products with no plans to migrate away. We run OES - linux, GroupWise, Zenworks and Vibe and need a solution to backup and replicate those products in addition to our SLES and Windows boxes. Veeam is outstanding for replication and backup/restoring everything but nss data. I see from the thread one of the main issues is licensing and demand. There is plenty of demand here for nss support and with Attachmate acquiring Novell there is new life at Novell. I've stuck with Novell through the bad times and it appears my loyalty may pay off as Attachmate has really made some big changes which so far have proven to be very positive. I do believe that Novell will continue to have a strong customer base keeping most of it's current customers and gaining some new. If the customers are staying and "the old Novell is truly" back, with virtualization taking off and the tremendous value your product offers, I believe the demand for nss support will increase. I have contacted Novell to see if they can partner with you. They are very much focused on their customers and I have to believe with their resources they would at least contact your company about trying to make this happen. If I had nss support I could dump Symantec Backup Exec and nothing would make me happier...

Thanks,
Ed

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by EDAllen »

Good evening all,

I (like eheiger) am also an end user of the Novell product line and presently running a host of OES11 vm's configured with NSS volumes and other flavors of Novell products that utilize NSS on the OES11 platform. I am presently in the process of evaluating B&R and would certainly like the ability to backup and restore individual files and folders on NSS volumes. Also like eheiger, we are presently running Symantec Backup Exec (2010R3) and have run into issues with that product. Frankly I too would enjoy dumping the Symantec product if we could get NSS support and sincerely encourage Veeam to evaluate development of B&R in this direction.

Best,

Doug

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by Atti »

Hello All,

I too am an end user of the Novell product line. We are a governments agency in downtown Oakland and are about 90% virtualized on VMWare with many SLES/OES2 servers configured with NSS volumes (great technology). I am currently running a trail version of B&R V6. After running into this roadblock and then reading this thread, I am frustrated and disappointed. Veeam's product seems very good/fast and feature full. I hope they realize the potential customers that are being alienated due to lack of NSS support. Like eheiger and EDAllen before me, I would LOVE to dump BackupExec (12.5) if B&R had NSS support and I sympathize with there plight. I due understand the licensing problem, but contracting Novell on the issue, I'm confident something could be worked out ; it would benefit both. Veeam will sell millions of this product as no others come close, but please don't forget (however small in comparison) the most loyal group of all.

-Atti

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by azc »

I recently moved to Veeam and was disappointed to find no NSS support. So I contacted Portlock, and asked them if they were able to help in any way. I have good news for you.

The response couldn't have been more awesome:
We are asked this question often enough that we will create a solution
for this. This feature will be added to Portlock Storage Manager Client.

We already have the technology (VMDK mounting, raw file system access
for NetWare storage, etc.).

I will advise further once we have an engineering meeting
A few days later, another email:
It turns out that the development supporting the features needed for
Veeam Backup is almost ready for beta.

The key features supporting partition and file system access for VMware
virtual disks is almost ready. We need to look into integrating Portlock
Storage Manager Client with Veeam Backup but the timeframe estimated is
sometime next week for a beta level feature set. I have asked the
development team to write a document detailing how to use Veeam and
Portlock Storage Manager Client. This should be ready in a few business
days.

We are very interested in your support and the testing of these
features.

Expect more information Monday after the next meeting.

Note: I contacted Veeam today about working together and the initial
results were positive. If you have an account manager or sales person at
Veeam let them know how important this is for your needs.
A couple of days later, more email:
We should have a beta release and documentation on our FTP server next
Monday.

The following file systems will be supported:
1) FAT-12
2) FAT-16
3) FAT-32
4) NTFS
5) NetWare Traditional Volumes
6) NetWare 5.x NSS Volumes
7) NetWare 6.x NSS Pools
And another email today:
The support for Veeam Backup & Replication (and support for virtual
disks file system browsing and file recovery) is now beginning to appear
in the beta release of Portlock Storage Manager Client.

This support is beta and as such has the typical warnings.

The current beta supports extracting files / directories from virtual
disks created by Veeam and VMware ESX, ESXi and Workstation.

The following file systems are support today in the beta version:
FAT16
FAT32
NTFS

NetWare Traditional and NSS will appear in the next couple of days.

Go here for documentation on our support for Veeam and beta release
software: http://www.portlock.com:88/Public/downl ... ageManager

Please take a look at the current features which support Windows file
systems. The same features will support NetWare file systems. Provide
feedback on what you need and would like to see.

We expect to release these features into the production release in the
mid June 2012 timeframe.
So it sounds like finally Portlock and Veeam are in talks and NSS file-level restore will soon be easily achievable!

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Novell

Post by mcginnt » 1 person likes this post

[merged]

Any thoughts on including Novell NSS as a supported product?

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by spgsit5upport »

Thanks azc, I was not having much hope, but that changes everything...

Seb

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by tsightler »

One thing I noted in their draft document is that the steps involve performing a full restore of the VMDK files, but you should be able to do this via Instant Restore. Simply manually mount the vPower NFS datastore on the system that is running PortLock (there are plenty of options for mounting an NFS server on Windows), then perform an "Instant Restore" of the VM in question, leaving it network disconnected and powered off. Then, from the system running portlock, simply browse out to the VMDK files instead of having to perform a full restore.

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by spgsit5upport »

Will check this when the beta that actually supports NSS is out

Seb

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by jasonsfa98 »

This should be removed from the Veeam website until NSS is supported:

"Universal File-Level Recovery
Recover a file from any guest OS and file system directly from an image-level backup. Extends Veeam Instant File-Level Recovery with support for ANY file system. "

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by Gostev »

Why? UFLR works with any guest OS or file system, including NSS. It is classic wizard-driven IFLR that does not support NSS. Did you read the beginning of this topic?

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by jasonsfa98 »

Veeam is not an option for restoring a few individual files here and there. I've done it 3 times now and it takes nearly an hour for a single Word document. It's like saying that duct tape can fix a broken leg- sure it will keep it attached but it shouldn't be considered an option.

I am still blown away with one of the very first posts on this thread about OES being a "dying platform". Clearly someone is not aware of anything outside of their Microsoft world.

I am giving SEP a try tomorrow and will report back for all you other OES/NSS fans out there.
Gostev wrote:Why? UFLR works with any guest OS or file system, including NSS. It is classic wizard-driven IFLR that does not support NSS. Did you read the beginning of this topic?

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by Gostev »

jasonsfa98 wrote:I've done it 3 times now and it takes nearly an hour for a single Word document.
Wow, 1 hour? Can you describe what exactly are you doing? If you do this properly, it should take no more than 2 minutes. I suppose I can ask some SE to create a video of the whole process, if that helps.

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by jasonsfa98 »

I would LOVE to be wrong, really I would. I would love nothing more than to dump Symantec.

Have you guys done this in a live OES/eDirectory/NSS environment?

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by Gostev »

No, I tried this approach on Windows. Just attached published VMDK to another VM, and copied a file with Windows Explorer. I wonder what other 58 minutes are spent for in case of OES/eDirectory/NSS environment... is it really so much more complex than in Windows? Then no wonder why they lost to Microsoft :(

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by jasonsfa98 »

Ok then I stand by my original comment. Veeam shouldn't claim the NSS restore capability for individual files. In my experience, you cannot simply attach an NSS-based VM disk to a running OES server and have it available. eDirectory and NSS talk and both have to work in order to see the storage.

I keep seeing this talk about licensing but I find it hard to believe Novell wouldn't work with Veeam to make it happen. There are so few backup options now that they should jump at the chance to add another.

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by dellock6 »

Just out of curiosity, but is it Novell still active and in production as a company? Aren't they only concentrated right now on Suse linux business and some other stuff ???
Luca Dell'Oca
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vExpert 2011 -> 2020
Veeam VMCE #1

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by Gostev »

jasonsfa98 wrote:I keep seeing this talk about licensing but I find it hard to believe Novell wouldn't work with Veeam to make it happen. There are so few backup options now that they should jump at the chance to add another.
It is, in fact, the licensing issue. A few months ago, Novell reached out to us regarding this topic. Their technical folks were very responsive, and even provided is with all the required source code around NSS. We've built a working prototype, identified the list of modules required, and requested the official permission on using and redistributing items belonging to Novell IP as a part of Veeam FLR helper appliance. This went straight to their legal, and got stuck there forever.

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by tsightler » 1 person likes this post

The most successful solution I've seen for using Veeam with NSS is to simply use a SLES system to mount the NSS volumes and copy the files as root. This requires no functioning eDirectory services since root can login even with eDirectory services completely offline, and root also has access the NSS volumes via the Linux VFS layer. It's not perfect, but it seems to be the fastest, simplest way to use Veeam with NSS.

PortLock Storage Manager also seems to work reasonably well if you mount the vPower NFS volume to the Windows host running PSM you can open the VMDK files directly and browse the NSS volumes. It's not super fast, but it's pretty easy, and a lot less than an hour, but of course this is an additional one-time cost for portlock (pretty reasonable).

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by jasonsfa98 »

tsightler wrote:The most successful solution I've seen for using Veeam with NSS is to simply use a SLES system to mount the NSS volumes and copy the files as root. This requires no functioning eDirectory services since root can login even with eDirectory services completely offline, and root also has access the NSS volumes via the Linux VFS layer.
That was not my experience. Root can see the top level directories that represent a volume but there will be nothing inside it unless NSS/eDirectory is up and running. I had to power on the "instant" recovered VM and create a fake, isolated network to get eDirectory and NSS running before I could get data. Then I would FTP it to another machine from there.

Duct tape and bailing wire...

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by tsightler »

The SLES system had eDirectory access. The client simply mounted the volume to it and used root to access the files, or at least that's what it appeared. Even so, because the SLES system was part of eDirectory, simply mounting the volume was enough to get access.

In regards to having to create a "fake, isolated network" that's exactly what the vLab and U-AIR can do for you once you configure it and is exactly the way U-AIR works for all storage and filesystems not supported by the Linux FLR appliance. It shouldn't take an hour to power up a couple of servers in an isolated environment.

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by tsightler »

Even the Novell Storage Services guide for OES 11 seems to indicate that root should have full access to NSS files even without eDirectory, and their description matches what I appeared to see at the client. I don't have access to an OES system at the moment unfortunately but here is the quote from the guide for the relevant sections:
Root User
The root user is a local Linux user who is the all‐powerful connection when running on the Linux
server. The root user is hardcoded internally in NSS to have all access rights to all files. In this way,
the root user on Linux is similar to the Link Connection 0 user on NetWare.

The root user is not defined as a user in eDirectory, and the root user is not Linux‐enabled with
LUM. This allows you to log in to the server as the root user when eDirectory services are not
available. The root user is the only local Linux user who is allowed to access NSS via the VFS layer
without having an eDirectory GUID.

The root user logs in directly to the server to use NSS utilities (such as nsscon, nssmu, rights, attrib,
metamig, ravsui, and raview) from the terminal console and to issue NSS command line commands
from the NSS Console (NSSCON). The root user can also execute applicable Linux commands and
utilities.

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by eheiger »

I've been pushing for nss support and pushed Novell hard as a customer that relies on Novell products for our business. According to my novell rep as of yesterday, I'm told this is being pushed forward and that the product manager for OES is at VM World. I believe it will happen as Novell can't afford to not do it.

This would be awesome because with nss support I can finally dump Symantec!

Ed

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Re: NSS Volumes

Post by tjohnsonlcsd »

Is there any update on the NSS licensing front? I have posted on the Novell Technology partners list to see if I get any response.

I think this is an opportunity for Novell and Veeam to step up and help customers and for Veeam to distinguish themselves by supporting Novell and Linux on the same level as Microsoft. I love Veeam but frankly the dismissive attitude towards Novell products in the earlier posts is disturbing but the last official post on licensing sounds hopeful. I will not argue the merits of Windows vs. Linux vs. Novell as that really only gets people upset but Novell products are perfectly viable to run public and private sector organizations and offer very unique and IMHO superior products.

Customers should come first, and Veeam has done that consistently by adding great features and support, why not do the same for a very loyal group of Novell customers that use Veeam.

Hopefully the legal issues can be overcome and Novell customers can start spreading the news amongst Novell/Linux users about the benefits of using Veeam.

Thanks.

Tim

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