Physical Server Backup

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[MERGED] Any plans to extend Veeam to Physical Backups?

Veeam Logoby luckyinfil » Thu May 01, 2014 7:21 pm

We currently have Veeam implemented in both our VMware and Hyper-V environment and it works great. While Veeam is definitely a great product, many people I've spoke to do not use Veeam since it only backs up VMs and not physicals, which forces them to keep 2 backup solutions. From a virtual side of things, Veeam is in my opinion the best solution for backups. Anyone using another solution to backup their virtual infrastructure is selling themselves short. Are there any plans to extend Veeam to backup physical servers (at least for the Microsoft OS?).
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Re: [MERGED] Any plans to extend Veeam to Physical Backups?

Veeam Logoby Gostev » Thu May 01, 2014 8:56 pm 1 person likes this post

Hi, John

We have no plans for physical server backup at this time, because we don't believe physical servers have a future. We thought so in 2007, and of course we will not change our mind in 2014, when majority of servers in the world are virtual. We are also the fastest growing backup company ever, and it would definitely be a big mistake for us to screw the momentum by distracting ourselves from our "virtual-only" strategy.

luckyinfil wrote:many people I've spoke to do not use Veeam since it only backs up VMs and not physicals, which forces them to keep 2 backup solutions

This is something we commonly hear - but the fact is right now, 94% of Fortune 500 are Veeam customers. So in today's reality, relatively few people have concerns about keeping 2 backup solutions. In fact, based on a recent poll from major US analyst firm, each enterprise company uses (on average) more than 4 backup solutions. It's definitely true that customers want to reduce the amount of backup solutions they use, but in 2014 most people do that by virtualizing remaining physical servers - instead of looking for a backup solution that supports both physical and virtual. Just because the former approach provides incredible amount of additional benefits.

Also, seeing thousands of our prospects throwing out their existing backup solution (that typically does support both physical and virtual), and switching to Veeam, makes me even more confident that our "virtual-only" strategy is the strategy we must stick to.

Thanks!
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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby jayinjersey » Mon May 05, 2014 6:23 pm

I totally get where you are coming from...but we all have to admit, an entirely virtual experience is just a dream to most and there will always (yes I firmly believe this) be a place for physical servers in an environment.

That said, I'm curious as whether Veeam has looked into acquiring a smaller physical backup company and just include it as a feature set.

I know each version of Veeam (we're 3 deep now) makes great strives with usability and general features...I'd just love to see what they could do with a physical server.
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Re: [MERGED] Any plans to extend Veeam to Physical Backups?

Veeam Logoby kpier883 » Mon May 05, 2014 6:36 pm

Gostev wrote:Hi, John
This is something we commonly hear - but the fact is right now, 94% of Fortune 500 are Veeam customers. So in today's reality, relatively few people have concerns about keeping 2 backup solutions. In fact, based on a recent poll from major US analyst firm, each enterprise company uses (on average) more than 4 backup solutions. It's definitely true that customers want to reduce the amount of backup solutions they use, but in 2014 most people do that by virtualizing remaining physical servers - instead of looking for a backup solution that supports both physical and virtual. Just because the former approach provides incredible amount of additional benefits.

I'll bet you do hear this a lot. If I remember correctly, two of the things that Gartner said last year in their "cautions" regarding Veeam were that the current version of Veeam Backup and Replication does not offer physical server backup or tape backup.

You guys fixed/continue to fix the tape issue, but appear doggedly determined not to address the other issue. Maybe that is why they seemed to think that most customers using Veeam were not enterprise level customers?

Regards.
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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby zoltank » Mon May 05, 2014 8:37 pm 2 people like this post

While it would be nice if Veeam could back up physical servers, I know it would inevitably impact their commitment to VM backup and their VM backup feature set and stability, and to me at least that's not worth it. The way I see it, Veeam works so well because they've chosen to focus on one specific thing only. If the price I need to pay is running another backup software to handle my couple physical servers, I'm fine with that.
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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby andersonts » Tue May 06, 2014 12:41 am 3 people like this post

This is quite a hot conversation traditionally...the most interesting aspect to me personally is that many folks look at Veeam as "just" a backup when in reality we provide a true DR solution. There are several features contained in the Veeam product suite that aren't even available (even as an add on) in other products. Many other products provide backup and even replicating the backup data to a secondary site (some natively others requiring help such as array based replication or special appliances on both sides) but stop at that. Sure they might support virtual and physical but they certainly can't provide VM level replication or replication of physical machines to another site...that's normally another product...and generally then it's again part of a larger solution that requires multiple different products, hardware, and licensing ($$$$). Another example is virtual labs...there is no other software that I know of on the market that provides this level of functionality along with the other components in the same license. Sure there are products that do one or maybe two of the things above but not all of them. In fact most of the ones that claim they can do some of these things simply don't scale or require services to get up and running. I have had customers in numerous instances tell me that they bought XYZ product and are still in the implementation phase months later....not even large customers in most cases.

So I guess I am biased because I obviously work for Veeam but I truly believe and have seen in hundreds of customer engagements that most companies...even and especially the larger ones truly get the idea of dealing with their physical environment in a different manner than they do their virtual environment. Same thing with databases...I would say in 85 to 90% of the environments I have seen utilize a different data protection process with their databases....and in an even greater percentage the customers that have Oracle and SQL even have different processes between the 2. I think some of our competitors have some fairly nice tools to deal with these areas but frankly it's rare to see them in use...why? Because Database Admins understand their tools and feel that they are the right tool for the job.

I could go on and on with this because it's a subject I am passionate about but I also feel that it's an educational opportunity...simply put Veeam does NOT equal "just" backup...comparing Veeam to a legacy backup product is like comparing a pair of pliers to a multi-tool. My parting thought here is that I am probably one of the worst golfers in the world...I cannot hit my driver to save my life (my ball literally ends up behind me) but I still need 4 clubs (5 iron, 7 iron, pitching wedge, and putter) to play. Oh yeah...on the Gartner thing...we were the ONLY product in the space (out of 16 I think) that only does virtual and they were only looking at backup (not all of the other things I just mentioned) so you have to admit that's pretty darn impressive especially when we ended up on the right hand side.
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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby blodsbror » Tue May 06, 2014 6:30 am

I'm the firm believer, that lager infrastructure installations where uptime is critical - need at least a few critical physical servers outside of the virtualization environment, such as a DC, NTP, out of band management server and monitoring services. This is the make sure that the entire environment can continue to be accessed/monitored - even if the virtualization environment and network is having major issues.

Therefore, I don't see a future of 'everthing virtualized'. And therefore see a need and importance for both physical and virtual backup applications (or one that does both well), with virtualization being the major focus .

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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby dellock6 » Tue May 06, 2014 11:40 am 9 people like this post

Following Tim, here is another "biased" opinion on the topic.
I deal with mainly Service Providers and large enterprises, and I can assure you that Veeam B&R is totally "enterprise ready". When it comes to scalability for example, jobs balancing between proxies and the ability to deploy dozens of them is a feature that any large environment totally appreciates, because they have to deal with insane amounts of data to be protected daily, or even more often than daily.
I usually smile when I see the syllogism "you don't support physical -> you're not for enterprise". There is no meaning in this: we are totally for enterprises that want to protect their virtualized environments. Sure, we do not protect physical servers, as we do not protect non-x86 systems for example. So VMware is not enteprise ready because it cannot virtualize PowerPC or Mainframes? No, they bet on x86 and they go on with it.
What we are seeing more and more in these companies is that they are using "at least" two data protection solutions, or even more.

The reason is simple: instead of having one single "jack of all trades" solution that has average (I would say lousy...) capabilities in all scenarios, they prefer different "TOP" solutions to protect different workloads at best. So, we find TSM for mainframes, along with Veeam, RMAN for Oracle, and others.

Honestly, I see this as the complete opposite as not being enterprise ready: usually are the smallest companies that ask for an all-in-one solution.
Just two examples from the real world I usually use:
Knife: the swiss army knife it's useful for a boyscout, it can do 20 different things, none of them at best. A high profile chef will never use it to prepare your dishes, he will have 10 different knives, and he will never complain he has to use all of them;
Hi-Fi audio: the all-in-one appliance is good at an average home, the movie lover will by the best dvd player, plus the best amplifier, the best projector and the best speakers and woofer.

And to conclude, statistics are validating our vision, every year the percentage virtual/physical is moving more and more towards virtual.
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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby lobo519 » Wed May 07, 2014 2:33 pm

Question - We are a VMware shop but I am looking at using "Free" Hyper-V for a few physical servers we have left.

Security camera server - hard drive cabinet
CRM Images serv er- hard drive cabinet
Sybase Database server - Fusion IO

My problem is - Am I gonig to have to license Veeam for all the processors on these servers??!?! That's my biggest issue. If there was a cheaper licensing model for the hosts only running a single VM..

I have the same problem licensing VMware to do this which is why I am looking at Hyper-V

Thoughts???
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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby dellock6 » Thu May 08, 2014 1:10 pm

Well, this is a really corner case created by the design: virtualization is able to save money by consolidation, if you have (for your business reasons, I'm not judgind them), 1 VM per hypervisor, there si nothing that can be done. Our licensing is per socket, not per VM.

Luca.
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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby lobo519 » Thu May 08, 2014 1:17 pm

I obviously understand that but you are missing the point. it was suggested earlier that this is the solution for servers that require dedicated hardware. Someone mentioned licensing as an issue earlier which was brushed off and free Hyper-V as a solution. That is not a solution for the 2k in Veeam licensing that is required.

Licensing is a major sticking point for visualizing these workloads. Perhaps Veeam could address the Physical server backup with a license option for these instances.
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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby GregorS » Tue May 13, 2014 8:14 am

Is there an "incremental P2V" solution on the market yet? Can I add this feature to a wish list for Veeam B&R v9.0?

Thanks!
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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby Dima P. » Tue May 13, 2014 9:18 am

Gregor,

I believe, VMware converter can do that.
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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby GregorS » Tue May 13, 2014 9:35 am

No it can not. There are no permanent scheduled increments, at least in the latest version, that could be useful for the scenario physical --> P2V --> virtual --> Veeam backup. Or am I mistaken?

Regards, G.
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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby Dima P. » Tue May 13, 2014 10:08 am 1 person likes this post

Gregor,

You are right - I took a quick look across the user guide, it basically supports "plain" P2V, but there is Converter Standalone 5.5 SDK which could be somehow used for the incremental p2v, but it does not work out of the box and needs some user side coding.
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