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rnt-guy
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Re: Recommended Job Settings for EMC DataDomain in v9

Post by rnt-guy » Oct 06, 2016 2:52 pm

Hello,
I was going through the recommendations here and was curious if the answers change where Windows disk is the backup job destination and then it's the copy job that is a DD, not a DD first.

For example we store backup on Server 2012R2 dedupe disks first and then run a copy job out to a remote DD using the Cloud Connect product. I could see it making sense to enable inline data deduplication. Curious about other settings too.

Thanks

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Re: Recommended Backup Job Settings for EMC Data Domain

Post by foggy » Oct 06, 2016 3:11 pm

rnt-guy wrote:Will "Local target 16TB+" give it the best use of space on the local disks?
No.
rnt-guy wrote:or if I use something else that is better it will be worse for the DD's turn?
Yes, specifically for restore and synthetic operations performance.

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Re: Recommended Job Settings for EMC DataDomain in v9

Post by foggy » Oct 06, 2016 3:14 pm

rnt-guy wrote:I was going through the recommendations here and was curious if the answers change where Windows disk is the backup job destination and then it's the copy job that is a DD, not a DD first.
Recommendations are for DD, but in the described scenario your settings have to be a trade-off between both storages requirements.

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Re: Recommended Backup Job Settings for EMC Data Domain

Post by rnt-guy » Oct 06, 2016 3:31 pm

Thanks. Our customers aren't concerned with restore performance as they are quite rare, but rather disk space and window to get the backup job complete. So it would seem we should use the storage optimization size that results in the best dedupe performance on the backup job (win2012r2 w/ dedupe) with in-line dedupe enabled, then use optimal compression with decompress turned on for the copy job destination.

sound about right? I think the best dedupe rate for the windows server would be 'dedupe friendly', no? if it's not much different maybe I should leave it 'optimal' so that the copy job to dd can have that setting be best?

another question is about restarts: which of the settings in the recommendations require a reseed if we decide to change them? I remember storage optimization won't take effect until a new active full. are there others? We want to get the best dedupe ratio from DD without having to constantly test and redo active fulls. Sounds like DD won't care what settings we use as it will compress and dedupe on it's own.

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Re: Recommended Backup Job Settings for EMC Data Domain

Post by foggy » Oct 06, 2016 4:33 pm

rnt-guy wrote:Thanks. Our customers aren't concerned with restore performance as they are quite rare, but rather disk space and window to get the backup job complete. So it would seem we should use the storage optimization size that results in the best dedupe performance on the backup job (win2012r2 w/ dedupe) with in-line dedupe enabled, then use optimal compression with decompress turned on for the copy job destination.

sound about right? I think the best dedupe rate for the windows server would be 'dedupe friendly', no?
Yes, I'd go with these settings then.
rnt-guy wrote:another question is about restarts: which of the settings in the recommendations require a reseed if we decide to change them? I remember storage optimization won't take effect until a new active full. are there others?
Right, block size change requires active full, while compression will take effect right from the next incremental cycle.

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Re: Recommended Backup Job Settings for EMC Data Domain

Post by rnt-guy » Oct 06, 2016 5:54 pm

Thanks so much. Very appreciated.

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Re: Recommended Backup Job Settings for EMC Data Domain

Post by rnt-guy » Oct 06, 2016 5:55 pm

Last question - does in-line dedupe only affect backup jobs and not once we go offsite to the DD? Seems good to use it then?

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Re: Recommended Backup Job Settings for EMC Data Domain

Post by rnt-guy » Oct 06, 2016 6:01 pm

Sorry, I lied :) One more:

is there any value with Synthetic Fulls with a DD? Since all VBKs are deduped against each other any corruption on the actual disks would be ruined anyway right? Or do they still provide protection somehow? [EDIT:] - I heard SFs perform terribly without DDboost. We have it licensed and on, but apparently it doesn't work through the cloud gateway product. Not sure if that matters for SFs though.

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Re: Recommended Backup Job Settings for EMC Data Domain

Post by foggy » Oct 07, 2016 2:17 pm

rnt-guy wrote:Last question - does in-line dedupe only affect backup jobs and not once we go offsite to the DD? Seems good to use it then?
Both jobs have this setting, you can enable it for the backup and disable for the backup copy.
rnt-guy wrote:is there any value with Synthetic Fulls with a DD? Since all VBKs are deduped against each other any corruption on the actual disks would be ruined anyway right? Or do they still provide protection somehow?
Generally synthetic fulls are recommended, but could indeed be slow. There's a health check to ensure backups integrity.
rnt-guy wrote:[EDIT:] - I heard SFs perform terribly without DDboost. We have it licensed and on, but apparently it doesn't work through the cloud gateway product. Not sure if that matters for SFs though.
As far as I remember, DD Boost repositories can work in Cloud Connect, though not recommended due to inability to force recommended settings. Correct, without DD Boost all synthetic activity takes much longer.

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Re: Recommended Backup Job Settings for EMC Data Domain

Post by rnt-guy » Oct 07, 2016 2:31 pm

foggy wrote: As far as I remember, DD Boost repositories can work in Cloud Connect, though not recommended due to inability to force recommended settings. Correct, without DD Boost all synthetic activity takes much longer.
if the time it takes for SF's to finish is too long, is it at all possible active fulls would be faster? The one thing I don't get is why a job holds up others from backing up while it finishing the SF process. I thought the idea is it backs up the latest changes and then builds a full on the backend. It's not copying all the data over again.

Kind of related, but is there any benefit/protection value in doing an active full every once in a while that a SF doesn't provide?

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Re: Recommended Backup Job Settings for EMC Data Domain

Post by foggy » Oct 07, 2016 3:54 pm

rnt-guy wrote:if the time it takes for SF's to finish is too long, is it at all possible active fulls would be faster?
Yes, this is possible and backup copy jobs can do active fulls, if required ('Read from source...' check box).
rnt-guy wrote:Kind of related, but is there any benefit/protection value in doing an active full every once in a while that a SF doesn't provide?
Yes, periodic active fulls are always a good practice, if applicable.

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Re: Recommended Backup Job Settings for EMC Data Domain

Post by rnt-guy » Oct 07, 2016 3:58 pm

Why are active fulls good practice if you're using SF's and health checks? What do they do that SFs run the danger of not doing?

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Re: Recommended Backup Job Settings for EMC Data Domain

Post by foggy » Oct 07, 2016 4:06 pm

For example, to avoid backup file fragmentation (can be done with the help of compact as well). Active full just reads the entire data from the source instead of synthesizing full from existing backups. Here's more on the need for active fulls.

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Re: Recommended Backup Job Settings for EMC Data Domain

Post by rntguy » Jun 30, 2017 4:18 am

Regarding these settings with cloud connect using a dd ... as stated the goal is first best dedupe rate by the dd in the cloud (smallest size used gb after we does it's own management) Second it's fastest backup to the cloud. Restore speed and cpu hit is least important to the customer.

1. Shouldn't backup job and by consequence copy job be set to extreme compression? Or will that hinder dd's performance numbers for using least amount of space? Copy job set to automatic which would copy backup job. Backup goes to 2012. R2 with or without dedupe turned on. I could set backup job to one setting and copy job to another but then it would have to rebuild it before sending it offsite first which could delay it even more. But speed is secondary to bandwidth needs and space utilization at cloud.
2. Should I turn on inline dedupe on copy job so that it uses less bandwidth and then tell cloud dd to decompress upon arrival? Why is it bad to enable this according to article room 2014? https://www.veeam.com/kb1956

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Re: Recommended Backup Job Settings for EMC Data Domain

Post by foggy » Jul 17, 2017 2:11 pm

Irrespective of the source backup job, it is recommended to enable compression on the backup copy job, but configure the target repository to decompress data before writing it to DataDomain. In this case the data transfer will take less and dedupe rate will by best. Inline dedupe should be disabled for the backup copy job to DataDomain to avoid opening of the entire backup chain on target (less I/O).

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