Comprehensive data protection for all workloads
Post Reply
KonradoMoreno
Influencer
Posts: 12
Liked: 1 time
Joined: Jun 27, 2024 10:38 am
Full Name: Konrad Zawlocki
Contact:

Split Snapmirror and Snapvault between netapp1 & 2

Post by KonradoMoreno »

Hi Team
Texting here with question, how to, and which one, set up policy on NetApp, to keep only SnapMirrors (delete SnapVaults) on cluster1 and move only SnapVaults to cluster2 ?
I am having job for both snapmirror (sm) and snapvault (sv). Would like to keep on Netapp1 only sm and have sv only on netapp2.
Is it possible?
Andreas Neufert
VP, Product Management
Posts: 7154
Liked: 1535 times
Joined: May 04, 2011 8:36 am
Full Name: Andreas Neufert
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Split Snapmirror and Snapvault between netapp1 & 2

Post by Andreas Neufert »

Our plug-in goes and selects the first specific replication job within NetApp that we can find.
In theory if you have a SM and SV and setup the specific processing for it, it should trigger both.

I suggest that you test it with the 30 day Veeam trial in a lab (with the NetApp Simulator for example) to be sure that it works as expected.
KonradoMoreno
Influencer
Posts: 12
Liked: 1 time
Joined: Jun 27, 2024 10:38 am
Full Name: Konrad Zawlocki
Contact:

Re: Split Snapmirror and Snapvault between netapp1 & 2

Post by KonradoMoreno »

Thank you for the answer.
As well one more concern - If backup job set up in Veeam with storage selected ONTAP, and with disabled "secondary destination", means automatically with no option to select SnapMirror / SnapVault, will save data more like just snapshot, with no good specification to restore?
How in this case is difference between snapshot and snapmirror?
Andreas Neufert
VP, Product Management
Posts: 7154
Liked: 1535 times
Joined: May 04, 2011 8:36 am
Full Name: Andreas Neufert
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Split Snapmirror and Snapvault between netapp1 & 2

Post by Andreas Neufert »

A bit hard to follow thoughts. Let me try to answer.
If you enable secondary destination and select specific processing options, then Veeam orchestrates and monitors exactly what is selected and warn you if it does not work for whatever reason. But you can as well do things directly on the storage and schedule things there. If you give the Replication destination storage to Veeam we will rescan these snapshots then and provide restore options, but as we do not orchestrate the replication we can no warn you if something goes wrong.

The Backup job has 2 options:

Backup from Storage Snapshot with a regular repository selected. Here we create only a temporary snapshot and we remove the snapshot afterwards.
Snapshot only Jobs where you select the Storage Snapshot option as Repository. Here we create only the Snapshot but not a backup. You can restore out of the snapshots then.

You can combine both with additional options from the secondary destination wizard step, like keep the primary snapshot and orchestrate SnapVault/SnapMirror.
KonradoMoreno
Influencer
Posts: 12
Liked: 1 time
Joined: Jun 27, 2024 10:38 am
Full Name: Konrad Zawlocki
Contact:

Re: Split Snapmirror and Snapvault between netapp1 & 2

Post by KonradoMoreno »

Thank you @Andreas
To explain bit better my thought: Having now NetApp1 and NetApp2. In the concept willing to have SnapVaults on both NetApp 1&2, but SnapMirror only on NetApp1 - for this has no policy set up for mirroring SM between NA's
When having enabled in Veeam backup job Secondary Destination and set up as SnapMirror - On NetApp directly has no policy to transfer SM between AP1&2 receiving veeam warning about otapp relationship.
While disabled snapmirror Secondary Destination, no warning at all, and still seeing SnapMirror jobs on NA1.
Wondering about any difference in final record/file SnapMirror while having Secondary Destination enabled and disabled, in case of restore if this changes anything, except that only is in one location - NA1. The file itself has anyhow less data, less information so restore can be somehow worst?
Andreas Neufert
VP, Product Management
Posts: 7154
Liked: 1535 times
Joined: May 04, 2011 8:36 am
Full Name: Andreas Neufert
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Split Snapmirror and Snapvault between netapp1 & 2

Post by Andreas Neufert »

OK let´s do this step by step.

SnapVault is now SnapMirror with different retention on both sides. So we are calling the Snap Mirror engine. This is why you see SnapMirror processing.

SnapMirror needs a second storage system as well, and it needs to be initialized so that we can use it.
Same for SnapVault, but the settings on NetApp side with different retention on both sides need to be activated.

What is your concern about restore? Can you please explain it a bit in more detail?
KonradoMoreno
Influencer
Posts: 12
Liked: 1 time
Joined: Jun 27, 2024 10:38 am
Full Name: Konrad Zawlocki
Contact:

Re: Split Snapmirror and Snapvault between netapp1 & 2

Post by KonradoMoreno »

concern about restore - disable secondary storage for snapmirror. Task runs every 1h, 48 Restore points, 48xSnapMirror per day processing visible on NA1, available for 2 days, not cloning into NA2. Never appear there.
SnapVault runs daily, 7 Restore Points, so every day for 1 week, one SnapVault record available on NA1 & NA2.
In case of disaster with NA1, I have access only to daily Vault backup from NA2.
In case of disaster with NA2 - have access to and backups every 1hour and daily.
Having SnapMirror relationship between NA1&NA2 gives me better redundancy and stability in case of disaster, and consumes more storage by doubled data.
So from Veeam I will be to restore exactly the same VM, just depends if from the last hour, or last day.
Is this correct?
rennerstefan
Veeam Software
Posts: 693
Liked: 152 times
Joined: Jan 22, 2015 2:39 pm
Full Name: Stefan Renner
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Split Snapmirror and Snapvault between netapp1 & 2

Post by rennerstefan »

Hi,
I guess what you are talking about is a mirror-vault relationship right?
A realationship where you have the benefits of SnapVault along with the benefit that you can break it in a disaster and put it online on any side!?
I don't see why you would want to split it in differnt types if you need both anyways.

Please clarify.

Thanks
Stefan Renner

Veeam PMA
rennerstefan
Veeam Software
Posts: 693
Liked: 152 times
Joined: Jan 22, 2015 2:39 pm
Full Name: Stefan Renner
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Split Snapmirror and Snapvault between netapp1 & 2

Post by rennerstefan »

maybe in addtion to my comment above.
For us it doesn't matter how you setup your NetApp relationships as Veeam will only orchestrate those.
So in theory you could also just use NetApp Policies and scheduler for all tasks and just use Veeam for Restore.
As we scan all snapshots on a regular base you can also recover from snapshots that were not created by Veeam.
You will loose application consistency because snaps are done by Netapp natively but we will be still able to recover.
I might not fully understand yet how you want to build it so a drawing might help here as well.
Thanks
Stefan Renner

Veeam PMA
KonradoMoreno
Influencer
Posts: 12
Liked: 1 time
Joined: Jun 27, 2024 10:38 am
Full Name: Konrad Zawlocki
Contact:

Re: Split Snapmirror and Snapvault between netapp1 & 2

Post by KonradoMoreno »

Just trying to figure it out, how for ONTAP and relationship with Veeam backup/Restore makes difference:
Storage - ONTAP, Secondary Storage - None
Storage - ONTAP, Secondary Storage - ONTAP SnapVault
Storage - ONTAP, Secondary Storage - ONTAP SnapMirror
Storage - ONTAP, Secondary Storage - ONTAP SnapMirror & SnapVault
Andreas Neufert
VP, Product Management
Posts: 7154
Liked: 1535 times
Joined: May 04, 2011 8:36 am
Full Name: Andreas Neufert
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Split Snapmirror and Snapvault between netapp1 & 2

Post by Andreas Neufert »

Can you please describe more what information you would like to get? Is it about restore capability or about ONTAP configuration or ... ?
rennerstefan
Veeam Software
Posts: 693
Liked: 152 times
Joined: Jan 22, 2015 2:39 pm
Full Name: Stefan Renner
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Split Snapmirror and Snapvault between netapp1 & 2

Post by rennerstefan »

From our side there is only one difference:

Snapmirror means we are not applying different retentions for source and destination we just trigger a snapmirror update

Snapvault means you can set different retentions for source and destination ONTAP in our UI, same for mirror vault.

In terms of features there is not difference. You can run bfss from both as well as recoveries.
So up to you what fits better your need.
Stefan Renner

Veeam PMA
KonradoMoreno
Influencer
Posts: 12
Liked: 1 time
Joined: Jun 27, 2024 10:38 am
Full Name: Konrad Zawlocki
Contact:

Re: Split Snapmirror and Snapvault between netapp1 & 2

Post by KonradoMoreno »

Andreas Neufert wrote: Jul 04, 2024 6:37 am ... about restore capability ?
Restore capability, storage space, and good practice to keep backups with ONTAP. Had before much more practice and experience with local storages and incremental backups with full backup.
Trying as best practice implement now with ONTAP
rennerstefan
Veeam Software
Posts: 693
Liked: 152 times
Joined: Jan 22, 2015 2:39 pm
Full Name: Stefan Renner
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Split Snapmirror and Snapvault between netapp1 & 2

Post by rennerstefan »

Restore capabilities:
are the same except that with snapvault you may have more restore points (snapshots) on one of the ONTAP systems.

Storage space:
That's outside veeam any very much depending on your data structure and change rate. Traditionally I would say that the snapvault target might be a little cheaper and with that snapvault has the benefit to hold less snapshots on primary and that means less expensive space used.

Other best practices:
I would recommend to use mirror vault as it combines benefits of both snapmirror (break) as well as snapvault (different retentions).
All of this, as mentioned above is independent from veeam side but more of a NetApp/ONTAP topic.

From veeam side it just important that there is at least one proxy able to access the data on both the primary and secondary side, something people forget about it and wonder why recovery or backup is not possible.

In our help center you can find some requirements and limitations for the ONTAP integration so worth to check for sure before implementing.
Stefan Renner

Veeam PMA
rennerstefan
Veeam Software
Posts: 693
Liked: 152 times
Joined: Jan 22, 2015 2:39 pm
Full Name: Stefan Renner
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Split Snapmirror and Snapvault between netapp1 & 2

Post by rennerstefan »

You might want to have a look here for information on the restore capabilities: https://helpcenter.veeam.com/docs/backu ... ml?ver=120
And a look here on the requirements and limitations specifically on ONTAP: https://helpcenter.veeam.com/docs/backu ... ml?ver=120

Let us know of further questions.
Stefan Renner

Veeam PMA
KonradoMoreno
Influencer
Posts: 12
Liked: 1 time
Joined: Jun 27, 2024 10:38 am
Full Name: Konrad Zawlocki
Contact:

Re: Split Snapmirror and Snapvault between netapp1 & 2

Post by KonradoMoreno » 1 person likes this post

Great
helped me a lot. Thank you
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot] and 89 guests