Veeam Backup Server HP Apollo 4200

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Re: Veeam Backup Server HP Apollo 4200

Veeam Logoby poulpreben » Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:24 pm 1 person likes this post

So, from a pure disk performance point of view, the present configuration with 4x striped RAID6 on 6 TB drives with 2x Intel S3500 SATA disks in RAID1 acting as Smart Cache, the results are as follows.

I used this "fio" profile for the test:
Code: Select all
[global]
bs=512k
numjobs=1
runtime=600
ioengine=windowsaio
iodepth=1
direct=1
overwrite=1

[forward1]
size=50g
rw=write
filename=D\:\vib1

[forward2]
size=50g
rw=write
filename=D\:\vib2

[forward3]
size=50g
rw=write
filename=D\:\vib3

[forward4]
size=50g
rw=write
filename=D\:\vib4

[transform1]
stonewall # block this workload until previous has completed
new_group # start new reporting group so numbers make sense
size=100g # 2x the size of the forward
rw=randrw
rwmixread=50
runtime=600
file_service_type=roundrobin
filename=D\:\vbk1
filename=D\:\old_vib1

[transform2]
size=100g # 2x the size of the forward
rw=randrw
rwmixread=50
runtime=600
file_service_type=roundrobin
filename=D\:\vbk2
filename=D\:\old_vib2

[transform3]
size=100g # 2x the size of the forward
rw=randrw
rwmixread=50
runtime=600
file_service_type=roundrobin
filename=D\:\vbk3
filename=D\:\old_vib3

[transform4]
size=100g # 2x the size of the forward
rw=randrw
rwmixread=50
runtime=600
file_service_type=roundrobin
filename=D\:\vbk4
filename=D\:\old_vib4


It simulates 4x backup jobs writing forward incremental simultaneously, and then the following transform, which is purely random read + random write.

Code: Select all
Run status group 0 (all jobs):
  WRITE: io=204800MB, aggrb=349902KB/s, minb=87475KB/s, maxb=87477KB/s, mint=599343msec, maxt=599353msec

Run status group 1 (all jobs):
   READ: io=87362MB, aggrb=149093KB/s, minb=36529KB/s, maxb=37852KB/s, mint=600007msec, maxt=600013msec
  WRITE: io=87344MB, aggrb=149063KB/s, minb=36556KB/s, maxb=37831KB/s, mint=600007msec, maxt=600013msec


That is close to 400 MB/s write performance, and around 150 MB/s for the transforms. Please remember those are raw storage I/O numbers, and there will of course be some slight overhead when Veeam is introduced with metadata updates etc.

In conclusion this means that it should be able to saturate the 10 GbE link reading from production storage, and write to disk at full capacity when native compression, deduplication and BitLooker is enabled. What more do you need, right? :)
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Re: Veeam Backup Server HP Apollo 4200

Veeam Logoby jronnblom » Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:59 pm

poulpreben wrote:So, from a pure disk performance point of view, the present configuration with 4x striped RAID6 on 6 TB drives with 2x Intel S3500 SATA disks in RAID1 acting as Smart Cache, the results are as follows.


Could you run fio without the SSD and Smart Cache? It would be an interesting comparison.

-J
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Re: Veeam Backup Server HP Apollo 4200

Veeam Logoby poulpreben » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:13 pm

Sure, and as expected, the throughput for sequential write actually increased significantly here.

The 350-400 MB/s write in the previous test is capped by the 6 Gb SAS port divided by the two SSDs in RAID1. As they are acting as write-back cache, all writes are passed through those drives. In the perfect world, we would probably have split those two SSDs across both controller paths, instead of having them on the same backplane.

The transform also decreased slightly. In fact by almost 33%. This is probably due to the read block not getting cached anymore and thus not being able to instantly commit the block to disk using write-back.

Code: Select all
Run status group 0 (all jobs):
  WRITE: io=204800MB, aggrb=1281.2MB/s, minb=327966KB/s, maxb=327977KB/s, mint=159855msec, maxt=159860msec

Run status group 1 (all jobs):
   READ: io=60304MB, aggrb=114094KB/s, minb=28022KB/s, maxb=28985KB/s, mint=541178msec, maxt=541226msec
  WRITE: io=60381MB, aggrb=114239KB/s, minb=28077KB/s, maxb=29012KB/s, mint=541178msec, maxt=541226msec
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Re: Veeam Backup Server HP Apollo 4200

Veeam Logoby pirx » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:53 pm

poulpreben wrote:So, from a pure disk performance point of view, the present configuration with 4x striped RAID6 on 6 TB drives with 2x Intel S3500 SATA disks in RAID1 acting as Smart Cache, the results are as follows.


This is a RAID 6 with 4 x 6 TB right? Hm hm hm.... With our needed ~100-150 TB per node, we would need bigger raid groups. Do you think RAID60 is necessary at all?
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Re: Veeam Backup Server HP Apollo 4200

Veeam Logoby Delo123 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:00 pm

Not on HP but Supermicro here, but we use 10x Raid 5 of 6 TB disks and stripe those into a windows storage pool per node. Gives us nearly a usable Petabyte after dedupe. Backups over 1GB/s
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Re: Veeam Backup Server HP Apollo 4200

Veeam Logoby poulpreben » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:09 pm

pirx wrote:
poulpreben wrote:So, from a pure disk performance point of view, the present configuration with 4x striped RAID6 on 6 TB drives with 2x Intel S3500 SATA disks in RAID1 acting as Smart Cache, the results are as follows.


This is a RAID 6 with 4 x 6 TB right? Hm hm hm.... With our needed ~100-150 TB per node, we would need bigger raid groups. Do you think RAID60 is necessary at all?


Well, even with 28x 6 TB and 2x RAID 6 with 14 disks in each, you would only get 134 TB usable. Then you have no hot-spares, no dedicated OS drives and no Smart Cache. Your rebuild times would also be through the roof, and I would really not recommend you going down that rabbit hole.

I think only 24 of the 28 drives are connected to the P84x controller, so I have inserted the numbers into my calculator. Maybe that helps you making a decision. I would personally go with maximum 8 drives in each RAID6.

Image
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Re: Veeam Backup Server HP Apollo 4200

Veeam Logoby jronnblom » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:11 pm

poulpreben wrote:Sure, and as expected, the throughput for sequential write actually increased significantly here.

The transform also decreased slightly. In fact by almost 33%. This is probably due to the read block not getting cached anymore and thus not being able to instantly commit the block to disk using write-back.



How are the disks configured on this machine?

How big are the SSDs?

What would happen to the performance when the SSDs are full?

Is the total backup and transform time shorter with/without the SSDs? Would of course depend on the amount of transfered/changed data.

Very interesting.

-J
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Re: Veeam Backup Server HP Apollo 4200

Veeam Logoby poulpreben » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:13 pm 1 person likes this post

jronnblom wrote:How are the disks configured on this machine?

http://i.imgur.com/z4qD3aN.png

jronnblom wrote:How big are the SSDs?

Intel S3500, 480 GB

jronnblom wrote:What would happen to the performance when the SSDs are full?

It's a simple FIFO cache. Cold blocks get purged from it.

jronnblom wrote:Is the total backup and transform time shorter with/without the SSDs? Would of course depend on the amount of transfered/changed data.

You answered that one yourself ;)
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Re: Veeam Backup Server HP Apollo 4200

Veeam Logoby pirx » Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:13 pm

The 4510 supports up to 48 LFF drives with up to 8 TB. I think a 4200 with either 24 x LFF (2-8 TB) or 48 x SFF with max 2TB will not be enough here.

BTW: where is the benefit with a 4 disk RAID 6 compared to a RAID 10?
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Re: Veeam Backup Server HP Apollo 4200

Veeam Logoby poulpreben » Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:05 pm

pirx wrote:BTW: where is the benefit with a 4 disk RAID 6 compared to a RAID 10?

Absolutely nothing. I only have it there, as I can switch the calculator to RAID5 mode.
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Re: Veeam Backup Server HP Apollo 4200

Veeam Logoby dellock6 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:38 am

One quick suggestion also to improve performance: S3500 are designed with more read performance in mind, but for writes you can also look at S3700. Also endurance is really different, with the 3700 offering way higher values (thus better lifetime when used heavily with writes).
Price on the other side is almost double for the 3700, as expected with the difference in performance.
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Re: Veeam Backup Server HP Apollo 4200

Veeam Logoby poulpreben » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:39 am

S3500 is just the (cheap) SATA version of S3700 ;-)
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Re: Veeam Backup Server HP Apollo 4200

Veeam Logoby dellock6 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:43 am

Not sure on this one, otherwise performance would be different because of the different bus in use, but endurance for example would be the same... ;)
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Re: Veeam Backup Server HP Apollo 4200

Veeam Logoby bg.ranken » Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:31 pm

poulpreben, can I ask how you would approach this when trying to use a scale-out repository for all the volumes on this server? Since RAID6 has space increase over RAID 10 at the cost of performance, would it be wise to mix things up a bit? For the 24 drive unit, I was thinking 6 drives in RAID10 with the scaleout extent set to do incrementals to it and then 8 drives in RAID 6 set for only fulls, and then you have 2 drives as spares. That gives 18TB for incrementals and two 36TB volumes for fulls for 90TBs total space. This would work for anyone with enterprise licensing (since you can only have 3 extents) and would give enough performance for incrementals that it should be fine.

As long as all the backups are duplicated to another device with the backup copy jobs, does this seem like a viable configuration? Or would it be better to do RAID6 for incrementals and RAID10 for fulls? It seems like having the incrementals on a RAID10 would be faster for backups so the servers do not have snapshots for too long.
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Re: Veeam Backup Server HP Apollo 4200

Veeam Logoby Andreas Neufert » Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:58 am

my 2 cents.
Prebens preformance findings show that in most cases the apollo will not be the bootleneck here. So I would keep the configuration simple as possible.
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