Question about backups - my backup project

[menced]

I have to make a backup of several vms for a total of about 1 tb.

I have Esxi installed and i planned to buy
1) vmware essentials
2) veeam essentials
3) a small server with windows 2012 to run veeam (poweredge t110)
4) a QNAP ts-869 where to storage backups

My question is:
do I need some free space somewhere to store temp backups? I mean: when veeam makes a backup, does it temporally store them somewhere to zip them or it directly move them to the qnap? Do i need some free space on the vmware server, in my small server or in the qnap (some space more than the normal space occupied by backup)?

Is my plan correct (a windows server making a backup of an external server into an external backup)? I am quite afraid of the time the process could take. I would like to make a backup every night. Do you think it is possible?

Thanks

[foggy]

Simone, no additional space is required, VMs data is being retrieved from the host primary storage and transferred directly to the target.

What kind of primary storage do you have? Is it a local host's storage? In this case I recommend to install a virtual proxy on it (can be installed on any existing Windows VM) to be able to use hotadd transport mode. This will significantly improve your backup performance comparing to network mode.

That said, the time required for the backup mostly depends on the amount of changes generated by your VMs between backup cycles. While nightly backups are generally possible with your amount of data, the only way to make sure of that is to test and then try to optimize the setup based on the results of the bottleneck analysis.

Also, I recommend to start from the forward incremental backup as it will produce less IO load on the target storage.

[menced]

Yes, my server has local host and the backups will be stored on a remote nas. I will give a look to virtual proxy in the documentation. Is a kind of software included in the veeam essentials?

So there is absolutely no needed space both in nas, server and the pc running veam? how can it compress without making a temp file?

[veremin]

Proxy is nothing but a one of default Veeam architecture components responsible for data processing operations. The role of proxy server can be assigned to any Windows based machine. The role of default proxy is played by Veeam Backup Server.

More information regarding proxy server, in general, and its modes, in particular, can be found in the corresponding User Guide (p.13) or in sticky FAQ.

So there is absolutely no needed space both in nas, server and the pc running veam?

Veeam Backup and Replication is based on the usage of temporary snapshots, so, some space is definitely required at source server datastore. According to the best practices, it’s strongly recommended to have 10% free of datastore in case of general VM, and, at least, 20% in case of VM with high change rate (SQL, Exchange, etc).

how can it compress without making a temp file?

The proxy server will handle the process of on-fly compression.

Thanks.

[menced]

Thanks a lot for all your answers.

Without proxy server who will handle compression?

[veremin]

Actually, proxy server is an integral, inseparable part of backup architecture. So, there is always, at least, one proxy server. If you don’t specify any of them, the role of default proxy will be played by Veeam Backup Server itself.

Thanks.

[menced]

So, if I have understood well, if I don't specify anything, proxy server is on the pc running veeam. In this case too i need about 20% of space free in the server running vms and no free space is requided on the pc running veeam to make compression. Is this correct?

Sorry but i am very noob on these.

My project is to use a 8 disk qnap TS-869 with raid 6 and 4 tb disks for a total of 24tb of free space.

I need to make 7 daily backups (a week) with (1 full backup and other incremental).

4 backups one a week (1 full and other incremental)

12 monthly backup (1 full and other incremental)


My vms are on two datastores one with 731 gb used and the other with 807. I know that everything dependes by how data changes over time but is my plan logical? Will all those backups probably stay on 24 tb? I ask to those who have more experience than me in this things.

[veremin]

So, if I have understood well,

Yes, your understating is correct.

proxy server is on the pc running veeam. In this case too i need about 20% of space free in the server running vms

Yes, if you’re going to backup VMs running special applications (SQL, Exchange, etc.) you will need 20% free space available at source server datastore.

and no free space is requided on the pc running veeam to make compression. Is this correct?

Yes. Assuming that you’re going to use QNAP as a repository server, instead of a default one (that is also a backup server), no additional space wouldn’t be needed on a backup server machine.

Thanks.

[menced]

Sorry but i am very noob on these.

My project is to use a 8 disk qnap TS-869 with raid 6 and 4 tb disks for a total of 24tb of free space.

I need to make 7 daily backups (a week) with (1 full backup and other incremental).

4 backups one a week (1 full and other incremental)

12 monthly backup (1 full and other incremental)


My vms are on two datastores one with 731 gb used and the other with 807. I know that everything dependes by how data changes over time but is my plan logical? Will all those backups probably stay on 24 tb? I ask to those who have more experience than me in this things.


Sorry for all these questions but I have to make a backup plan from nothing and in total I will spend a lot and I will be killed if i will make mistakes.
Thanks for everything

[veremin]

Your backup plan seems logical to me.

However, please be aware that in order to achieve what you want to you will have to either create three jobs with different schedules (daily, weekly, monthly), as well as, retention policies (7, 4, 12, respectively) or utilize this custom PS script that will handle GFS rotation for you.

Additionally, new backup copy job that will be available in the upcoming version of Veeam Backup and Replication will also have built-in GFS functionality. So, stay tuned.

I have to admit that you’ve got the point rightly – it’s rather hard to make any speculations about potential backup size without performing tests. Therefore, I recommend you running corresponding job, at least, two times (full and incremental run) and based on the results you get make a rough estimation regarding amount of space backup data is going to take up.

Thanks.

[menced]

Thanks a lot.
My major problem was to find a small external server to make veeam software to run and let it on 24/24

I will not use other proxy. Since there is no particular disk space requirement i will take a simple hd with 500gb. I was afraid it could be needed more space to store temp data while compressing because i thought data would have passed to the veeam software and then sent to the datastore. I thought that making a 1.5 tb of data backup you needed the same amount of space on the pc running veeam too but i was wrong.

Thanks a lot again

[veremin]

Yep, as mentioned, there is no additional space requirement apart from the space needed to store backup data (backup repository). You might also want to use a corresponding User Guide as a primary source of knowledge, since all points regarding the product are pretty good covered there.

Thanks.

[menced]

Yes the question I made was born after I read the manual:
"In addition, the Veeam Backup server no longer acts as a storage location the backup proxy transports VM data to the backup repository which is the location for keeping backup files, VM copies, metadata and so on. " PAGE 17 when they describe differences between advanced and simple method


I thought that in the simple model (the one i want to implement because i can't put other proxy server) you had to put data on local storage of PC with veeam or anyway data has to be temporally put there.

[veremin]

The sentence you’re referring to is related solely to a backup repository and the fact that in simple scenario this role is assigned to default Veeam installation. However, in your particular case, you’re going to use separate device as a backup repository, so, no additional space will be needed on primary Veeam server.

Thanks.

[menced]

In order to make backups on qnap do i only have to connect the qnap as a normal network driver and teel veeam to make backups there?

[veremin]

It depends on processor your appliance has. If it’s rather beefy one, i3/i5, for instance, then, you can present your QNAP box through iSCSI to the backup server. Otherwise, just use it as a network share.

Also, you can just search this forum for QNAP key words, and see what other users do.

Thanks.

[menced]

Veeam essential license is lifetime.

Renewal only refers to support.

Am i right?

[veremin]

Yep, you’re right. Thanks.

[menced]

If i want to use veeam essentials to make a backup of vms on a server (2 cores) and make a replica on another server (2 cores) I need two licenses?

[foggy]

You need licenses for all the hosts where your source VMs (those that are being backed up and/or replicated) reside.

[veremin]

Veeam Essentails is sold in 2 socket bundles, so it concerns with socket rather than cores. So, assuming that 2 socket limit is exceed, you will need to contact your sales representative and ask him to increase the number of licensed socket (Essentials should be increasable up to 6 sockets).

However, please be aware that if you want to replicate from production site (that is already covered with existing license) to a different one, no additional license will be required, since VB&R license concerns only with “source” host.

Thanks.

[yizhar]

I have Esxi installed and i planned to buy
1) vmware essentials
2) veeam essentials
3) a small server with windows 2012 to run veeam (poweredge t110)
4) a QNAP ts-869 where to storage backups

Hi.
I have a suggestion regarding the backup server.
In your design - there is not much use for that server, as you can deploy Veeam in VM under Esxi and run backups directly from that VM to QNAP.
However - in case of failure and when you need to restore, you don't have a spare esxi host to restore to.
You are also unable to use replication.

So -
I would consider purchasing a bit stronger server (with more RAM, decent CPU, and good raid controller with BBWC).
Install Esxi on the second host.
Use the second host as standby - you will be able to use it as restore target when needed.
You will also be able to use replication (in addition to backup) for short RTO. The replicated VMs can be stored on QNAP LUN presented to the 2nd host.

Yizhar

[yizhar]

You can also do something else:
1. Ditch the QNAP.
2. Instead of QNAP - purchase stronger server with a good raid controller, and a similar amount of disk space (12tb can be good for start, I don't see need for the 24tb you mentioned right from start).
A "strong server" with local disks will probably cost less then "weak server"+qnap, and provide better performance, stability, and more budget for additional disks or whatever you need.

Take a look at the following plan - regarding the backup server side:
http://forums.veeam.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=17449
It is different then your scenario in many aspects, but I just want to point out the use of single all-in-one server as backup and replicas target.

BTW - In any design, it is recommended that you do not keep all your backups on a single device (either nas/das or whatever).
Please read about the 3-2-1 rule:
http://www.virtualtothecore.com/en/?p=4642
In general - you should aim to have two copies of the data, and at least one of them off-site or removable media that you can take out of the office.

Yizhar

[menced]

Sincerly I have no idea of how many disk space will be used, so i am afraid that 12 tb will not be enough to cover 12 + 4 + 7 backups.
For the server i am thinking at a dell poweredge t110. It does not cost a lot. My strongher fear is a possible hardware fault of the server (3 years old) and so I would not like to have backup and restore software on a VM on it.

I am already planning to buy another server this year were to put vm in case of hardware fail, but from what I have seen the solution "strong server" costs more then "weak server" + qnap.
For what about the double backup copies, next year i would like to buy another qnap and use their rsync to have two identical copies of the backups.

Thanks for your help

[yizhar]

Hi.

If the single production server is 3 years old, then I would go for:

1. First step - new production server:
Purchase a new strong server that will replace the existing one, and don't wait for now.
This should fit similar budget to your current plan.
Migrate all VMs from old to new server.
The existing old esxi host will get the role of backup server, and will run a Veeam VM, backuping up and/or replicating to the internal storage.
The new Veeam VM will run Windows server 2012, to allow using OS level global deduplication in the future, for storing GFS long term backups.

2. Optional future step:
purchase additioan capacity (either DAS or NAS) for long term backup storage.

This plan seems to me better suited to your needs, accounting to the information provided.

Yizhar

[menced]

Yes, you're right. I'm already planning to buy a new server in sep-oct. The main problem is that i need to have a lot of backups and from what I've seen server with such internal space costs a lot.
For this reason I am planning to have the things separated and buy a smaller server with less space and ultra-fast disk

[yizhar]

Hi.

So you can:
1. purchase a new esxi server to be the new main production server.
2. Use the 3 years old existing server as the backup/replica.
3. If/when needed - add storage capacity for backup on NAS (such as QNAP) or DAS (directly attached SATA drives).

Yizhar