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tfloor
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SAS, NLSAS or SATA disks for onsite/offsite repo

Post by tfloor » Oct 17, 2013 12:17 pm

Hi,

I'm planning a new design for our Veeam v7 backup strategy.

We want to have backup and replica jobs.
We have now 1 DR location, and are at the beginning of using it.

So on the primary site:
- 1 Physical Backup Server (management and proxy) with SAN mode (EMC SAN), doing daily forward incremental, and synthetic full weekly to a qnap ec1279u-rp. SATA disks, total repository space = 8TB , keeping 14 restore points at the moment

DR Site:
We want to do "VM copy jobs" (with wan accelerator) to the DR site, putting that on another repository (still unknnown)
We want to do "Replica jobs" to the DR site, Some ESXI hosts, and still no SAN/NAS/Storage at the moment.


Questions:
For the DR site, i need a veeam proxy that will be virtual i guess, or is it better to do also physical with DAS for the copy job?
Otherwise I can buy again some QNAP High end NAS systems for the offsite backups in combination with a virtual proxy.
For the replica storage i need also a NAS/SAN. (or maybe combine everything on 1 storage system)

But what about the speed of al the repositories local and at DR?
Do i need to have SAS, NLSAS or SATA disks?
Do you prefer a NAS, or DAS in combination with server 2012 dedup feature.

I appreciate any advice.

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Re: SAS, NLSAS or SATA disks for onsite/offsite repo

Post by foggy » Oct 17, 2013 3:20 pm

tfloor wrote:For the DR site, i need a veeam proxy that will be virtual i guess, or is it better to do also physical with DAS for the copy job?
You need a virtual proxy for optimal replica VMs data population on target (using hotadd) and a Windows-type backup repository as a target for your WAN accelerated backup copy jobs. Expect disk I/O performance on the target repository to be the bottleneck for the backup copy jobs since WAN accelerators are effectively trading disk I/O for WAN bandwidth savings.

tfloor
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Re: SAS, NLSAS or SATA disks for onsite/offsite repo

Post by tfloor » Oct 17, 2013 3:52 pm

Is it possible to make a storage system on the dr site where both the replica and the backup copy jobs can landed.
And how about using regular backup jobs to backup the replica vm's ?

Is it possible that someone can give me an design example for my case.
The help center wasn't able to help me enough.

veremin
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Re: SAS, NLSAS or SATA disks for onsite/offsite repo

Post by veremin » Oct 17, 2013 4:01 pm

And how about using regular backup jobs to backup the replica vm's ?
It’s possible, though not recommended, since in case of disaster you will lose both archival backup data and replica VMs.
And how about using regular backup jobs to backup the replica vm's ?
From my perspective, if you’re going to use backup copy jobs, backups of replica VMs will be unnecessary.

Thanks.

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Re: SAS, NLSAS or SATA disks for onsite/offsite repo

Post by foggy » Oct 17, 2013 4:32 pm

tfloor wrote:Is it possible to make a storage system on the dr site where both the replica and the backup copy jobs can landed.
Yes, you can create separate LUNs and format them with VMFS and NTFS correspondingly.
tfloor wrote:And how about using regular backup jobs to backup the replica vm's ?
There is an adjacent discussion regarding that, where all the caveats of backing up replica VMs are discussed.

tfloor
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Re: SAS, NLSAS or SATA disks for onsite/offsite repo

Post by tfloor » Oct 17, 2013 6:27 pm

So it is possible to buy a big iscsi qnap and attach it to esxi hosts on the dr site (used by replication)
and also format some storage for NTFS and assign it as a drive letter (iscsi) to the virtual windows proxy on the same dr site

Ending up with 1 windows virtual proxy, some esxi hosts and a big iscsi nas separated into 2 types or storage (vmfs/NTFS)
Is that correct. If yes how about an extra veeam
Management server at the dr site, i read that it's recommended. Does it need a different SQL database, and then what to separate on the servers on site / off site. Jobs ?

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Re: SAS, NLSAS or SATA disks for onsite/offsite repo

Post by Vitaliy S. » Oct 17, 2013 9:29 pm

tfloor wrote:Ending up with 1 windows virtual proxy, some esxi hosts and a big iscsi nas separated into 2 types or storage (vmfs/NTFS)
Is that correct.
Yes, it is.
tfloor wrote:If yes how about an extra veeam
Management server at the dr site, i read that it's recommended. Does it need a different SQL database, and then what to separate on the servers on site / off site. Jobs ?
Yes, it is recommended to have a DR Veeam backup server that will manage replication jobs. This will allow you to use Re-IP, failback and automated failover features via backup console when your main site becomes not available.

This DR backup server will use its own configuration database.

Yes, use this backup server for replication jobs.

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Re: SAS, NLSAS or SATA disks for onsite/offsite repo

Post by veremin » Oct 18, 2013 7:15 am

Also, if you stick to “two backup servers ” scenario, it might be worth deploying Enterprise Manager in order to have required visibility between two backup servers.

Thanks.

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Re: SAS, NLSAS or SATA disks for onsite/offsite repo

Post by tfloor » Oct 21, 2013 9:25 am

v.Eremin wrote:Also, if you stick to “two backup servers ” scenario, it might be worth deploying Enterprise Manager in order to have required visibility between two backup servers.

Thanks.

Is it recommend to have the second veeam backup server (management) on the DR site, to be virtual or physical.
I know on the Main site i have it Physical because of the use of "Direct SAN mode", but that's not for restore.

And what about the type of disk / raid level on the main and DR site.
For example i use at the main site a QNAP nas and also on the DR site.
But now it's possible to place 3,5 or 2,5 sata or sas disks into the units.

Is the rule in my setup still the same:
Fast storage on the main site, and slower bigger (sata?) storage on the DR site, (keep the esxi replication in mind).

It would be very cool if i can get also answer on this.

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Re: SAS, NLSAS or SATA disks for onsite/offsite repo

Post by tfloor » Oct 21, 2013 10:06 am

I have Create the design so far.
It's more clear to have a complete picture.
Not very nice, but it's a fast sketch.

Here it is: http://gyazo.com/b8a1c507e48d16fcd4831ce513f821c7

Any advice on this is appreciated very much

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Re: SAS, NLSAS or SATA disks for onsite/offsite repo

Post by foggy » Oct 21, 2013 10:14 am

tfloor wrote:Is it recommend to have the second veeam backup server (management) on the DR site, to be virtual or physical.
I know on the Main site i have it Physical because of the use of "Direct SAN mode", but that's not for restore.
If the DR backup server will use the default proxy installed as a part of Veeam B&R, then you'd want to have it virtual to be able to populate replica VM data on target datastore using hotadd. In case of dedicated virtual proxy, Veeam B&R management server can be physical.

tfloor
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Re: SAS, NLSAS or SATA disks for onsite/offsite repo

Post by tfloor » Oct 21, 2013 10:55 am

foggy wrote: If the DR backup server will use the default proxy installed as a part of Veeam B&R, then you'd want to have it virtual to be able to populate replica VM data on target datastore using hotadd. In case of dedicated virtual proxy, Veeam B&R management server can be physical.
So as long as there is a veeam virtual proxy on the DR site it doesn't matter if the management server (only mgmt) is physical or virtual?

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Re: SAS, NLSAS or SATA disks for onsite/offsite repo

Post by foggy » Oct 21, 2013 10:57 am

tfloor wrote:So as long as there is a veeam virtual proxy on the DR site it doesn't matter if the management server (only mgmt) is physical or virtual?
Correct.

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Re: SAS, NLSAS or SATA disks for onsite/offsite repo

Post by tfloor » Oct 21, 2013 11:11 am

Nice,

So the design looks ok?
Any recommendations for the Type of disks on the main and DR site . sata /sas 7.5000 , 10.000 , 15.000 (we have around 4 TB full backup of all our vm's.)

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Re: SAS, NLSAS or SATA disks for onsite/offsite repo

Post by Vitaliy S. » Oct 21, 2013 1:33 pm

Yes, the design looks fine to me. Since fast storage is not required for offsite repository (used as a backup copy job target), then I would go with fast disks for primary repository (main site) and slower disks for DR repository.

As to raid recommendation, then here you go a couple of existing topics, check them out:
RAID6 or RAID10 for backup storage on local disk array?
NAS RAID level

Hope this helps!

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Re: SAS, NLSAS or SATA disks for onsite/offsite repo

Post by yizhar » Oct 21, 2013 7:10 pm

Hi.

I think that local disks on the DR esxi host can give you better performance and stability vs QNAP for similar cost.
For example = 8 * 2gb NLSAS disks on the DR host.

Yizhar

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Re: SAS, NLSAS or SATA disks for onsite/offsite repo

Post by tfloor » Oct 22, 2013 11:27 am

But for the DR we have a HP Blade chassis with 5 esxi BL460c hosts. That's the old hardware from the main site. So we want to use that one on the DR site.

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Re: SAS, NLSAS or SATA disks for onsite/offsite repo

Post by tfloor » Oct 22, 2013 11:30 am

How about A physical backup server / proxy with server 2012 R2 with deduplication feature with a qnap storage unit as repository.
Can you enable dedup on that qnap volume to get the benefits of deduplication?
Otherwise i can take a big server with das storage.

Using 14 restore points , forward incremental. weekly synthetic.

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Re: SAS, NLSAS or SATA disks for onsite/offsite repo

Post by Vitaliy S. » Oct 22, 2013 1:18 pm

If you can present your QNAP device to a Windows Server and create volumes there, then it should work, however you can as well simply use the cheapest JBOD array for this ;)

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Re: SAS, NLSAS or SATA disks for onsite/offsite repo

Post by tfloor » Oct 22, 2013 5:00 pm 1 person likes this post

I'm busy with buying a new dell R720 XD, a with 24x 1 TB Near Line SAS disks in Raid 10 . 32 GB mem, and 2x 2.3 Xeon procs.
So that one has Direct attached storage. That's for my main site. And then i will bring the current qnap nas to the other side (DR site).

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