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Fiskepudding
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Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by Fiskepudding » Apr 25, 2012 11:01 am

Cokovic wrote:Ah ok. I referred to your example above. If you want to test about 20 VMs then you are right this is not the way to go.

Why not just seperate the DCs in their own job and exclude DC2 from the entire host job?

Right now i'm testing what will happen if the same VM is in the application group and a linked job.
Forgot to anwswer your question Cokovic.

I thought of this, but actually wanted to know how this works. And my tests also shows that the Veeam is "smart" and wont satart the VM twice.
So I did not have to change the job. :)

I think it's also more comprehensible NOT to exlude VMs when managing the jobs.

Cokovic
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Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by Cokovic » Apr 25, 2012 11:42 am

Fiskepudding wrote:
If I look at the VM booting on the console in vCenter, it never gets to the logon screen, it hangs on "Applying computer settings" for 10 minutes.(default 600sec).
HOWEVER it passes the Heartbeat test.
In my case the VM never came to the logon screen. My screen was just......well......black :D
Fiskepudding wrote:
If I understand you correctly it helped to set the numbers of concurrent vms to 1?...
It does not for me, so maybe our problem is not related. We use Veeam 6.0.0.181
Yes thats right. It helped to set this to 1. But then the VMs get processed sequential which took a long time to proof 10-20 VMs. And i've tested this only under Veeam v5. Not v6. But i will give it a try these days and report back what happened.
Fiskepudding wrote:
I think it's also more comprehensible NOT to exlude VMs when managing the jobs.
How about managing your jobs with VMWare folders? No need to exclude VMs and every new VM in the folder would be backed up automatically.

Fiskepudding
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Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by Fiskepudding » Apr 25, 2012 12:04 pm

Cokovic wrote:
Folders could be a solution. But as it turns out, it won’t process the VM twice, so the selection can stay as is :)

I can easy live with processing 1 VM at a time, it only takes a total of 5 minutes to process a normal VM on my system.
And if needed it the SureBackup job can run into production time without any issues.

I just want it to work :)

It’s impossible to run ALL my VMS in one application group and test them all (there is not enough RAM and CPU)...
My second option is to have MANY application groups with corresponding jobs, which in total will test all my backups in turn.
However this will require to boot DCs many times. I am also not sure how I would schedule this, making one job start after the other is finished.
Bring in "linked jobs" :) hehe.


I will post back here as soon as I get a response from support.
Somehow it is good to know I am not alone :)

Fiskepudding
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Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by Fiskepudding » Apr 25, 2012 2:09 pm

I just got a reply from support...

"The VM has to be added either via application group or via linked backup jobs, it's a common limitation."

Thats it, nothing else. Not very helpful...

We just confirmed in this post that it CAN indeed be placed in the app group and as a linked job, even in the same surebackup job.
It just wont process that VM swice (it is not even listed twice in the job monitor). In other words it should boot normally..

Support must have misunderstood my question.

Hoping for an update soon.

Fiskepudding
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Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by Fiskepudding » May 04, 2012 1:20 pm 1 person likes this post

Veeam support nailed this one.

It was firewall related. All "File and printer sharing" inbound rules needed to be enabled.
In some cases it was not enough to just disable the firewall alltogether.

Works fine now.

averylarry
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Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by averylarry » Jul 03, 2012 3:12 pm

Bump -- my Surebackup jobs don't shutdown the application group. I thought that was supposed to be fixed in 6.1 . . ?

foggy
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Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by foggy » Jul 03, 2012 4:16 pm

App. group is supposed to be shutdown normally in case where it does not contain the same VMs set as the linked backup job (which is not considered to be a reasonable scenario).

averylarry
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Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by averylarry » Jul 03, 2012 6:30 pm

Clarifications to be affirmed or corrected:

1) Application group only OR linked backup job only will shutdown correctly.
2) Application group AND linked backup job will shutdown ONLY if NO VMs are referenced more than once (no VMs in both app. group and backup job).
3) "not ... reasonable" means a lot of places will have to change their backup structure (basically create a new backup job for the application group VMs so they are not part of a linked backup job) to make Surebackup shutdown correctly.

Is this expected to be changed?

Considering how unbearable it is to try and startup a Windows server when DNS isn't working (hence the need for a domain controller in an application group), is changing the backup structure the only way to allow for an application group and linked backup job to co-exist?

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Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by Gostev » Jul 03, 2012 7:28 pm

Yep, does not make sense to me either,specifically because of 3 - in many cases, ALL of my VMs will be in the same backup job! Extremely common scenario? I'll let foggy comment and explain this statement further, since clearly he talked to QC or R&D before answering - and I am currently out of office.

foggy
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Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by foggy » Jul 04, 2012 9:40 am

Well, seems the phrasing was not clear enough, sorry for that. I meant the case where both the app.group and the linked backup job contain the identical set of VMs - this situation is not handled correctly at the moment (the app. group is not shut down after the SureBackup job completes). In all cases where the whole set of VMs is different (including those where some VMs belong both to the app. group and the linked backup job - such VMs will be started only once, from the app.group), the app.group (according to QC) should shut down correctly after processing all the VMs from the linked job. If it does not, further investigation with debug logs review is required.

averylarry
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Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by averylarry » Jul 06, 2012 7:57 pm

Well I'm confused. If I understand foggy -- the application group should shutdown as long as it has at least 1 VM to process from the linked backup job. The 'not reasonable' scenario referenced is if the linked backup job is entirely superfluous since ALL of its VMs are already in the application group.

That's not my scenario. And that's not what tech support told me.

Case #5202448. To clarify:
1) I have an application group with 2 VMs in it -- both domain controllers (for 2 separate forests/subnets).
2) I have 2 backup jobs linked. Both backup jobs contain multiple VMs. No VM is in both backup jobs. The application group VMs are included in one or the other linked backup job. (So each linked backup job contains VMs that are not in the application group.)
3) The application group does not shutdown. Subsequent backup jobs fail with the standard (paraphrased) error 'backup file is locked by surebackup job'.

tsightler
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Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by tsightler » Jul 06, 2012 8:50 pm

Effectively the rule for right now with 6.x is that any VMs in an application group must not also exist in the linked backup jobs. If you create a separate job for your two DC's and remove them from their current backup jobs, it should work. I believe they are looking to fix this in the next patch for 6.1.

For the interim, you can shutdown the SB job via PowerShell using a scheduled task in Windows if you don't want to change up your jobs.

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Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by foggy » Jul 09, 2012 11:30 am

As always, Tom is spot on. After talking with support guys it is clear now that the issue shows up not in the case of identical set of VMs in the AG and linked job only. This is being now reproduced by QC and will be logged to be fixed in the patch.

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