Discussions specific to the VMware vSphere hypervisor
Fiskepudding
Expert
Posts: 213
Liked: 26 times
Joined: Feb 01, 2012 7:24 am
Full Name: Espen Dykesteen
Contact:

SureBackup selecting VM

Post by Fiskepudding » Apr 24, 2012 6:53 am

I have question about sure backup and selection of VMs.

Lets say we have configured a backupjob on "host level"/Selecting the entire HOST.
Lets call the Job backup job (BackupHOST2)
this job/host contains these VMs and is included in the backup:
HOST2:
-DomainController2
-LicenseServer1
-AntiVirServer1

I have 1 other Job (BackupDomainController1) that pics up just 1 VM from another host and thats DomainController1



As I understand, a logical way to set up a verification job would be to create a ApplicationGroup containg both domian controllers.

Then link the job BackupHOST2 to the job.

How does Veeam handle this?
I already put DomainController2 in the application group.So it boots that up before the linked jobs (BackupHOST2).
Eventually it will start booting VMs in the linked backup job (BackupHost2) witch also contains DomianController2.

Is Veeam/SureBackup smart enought to understand that this VMs is already running (in the application group) and will simply skipp that VM when running the linked job?
Because I find no way to exclude VMs that are linked (where the job is an entire host)

Cokovic
Expert
Posts: 295
Liked: 59 times
Joined: Sep 06, 2011 8:45 am
Full Name: Haris Cokovic
Contact:

Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by Cokovic » Apr 24, 2012 7:50 am

Hi Espen,

just add them to the application group too and select the roles you need. That way you will prevent any conflict.

Fiskepudding
Expert
Posts: 213
Liked: 26 times
Joined: Feb 01, 2012 7:24 am
Full Name: Espen Dykesteen
Contact:

Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by Fiskepudding » Apr 24, 2012 7:56 am

Why wont there be a conflict?
DomainController2 is part of the application group (and is started first)
DomainController2 is ALSO part of the BackupHOST2 job and wil probabaly start again?
I dont se how adding roles to these will make any differnece. Both will have DC role, but will they start twice is actually my question.

Thanx

Cokovic
Expert
Posts: 295
Liked: 59 times
Joined: Sep 06, 2011 8:45 am
Full Name: Haris Cokovic
Contact:

Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by Cokovic » Apr 24, 2012 8:06 am

What i ment was to add both DCs, Antivirus server and License server all together in one application group and select there the roles you want to test instead linking the whole job to it.

And i'm not saying there won't be a conflict when trying to start the same VM twice in one SureBackup job. Never tried it to do that. But that way you won't start it twice.

Fiskepudding
Expert
Posts: 213
Liked: 26 times
Joined: Feb 01, 2012 7:24 am
Full Name: Espen Dykesteen
Contact:

Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by Fiskepudding » Apr 24, 2012 9:02 am

As far as I can se there is no way to accoplish what you are saying.
I can not run EVERY single server in the application group, there is not enogh resources for that. Thats not what application grups are made for either.
The good thing about linked jobs is that it power down the VM after testing, freeing up resources for the next VM...
(Obvisually the above is an example, I have about 20 VMs that I want to test, and having all of them in the application group would be, well, madness :))

I will try explain again.
My backup job of an entire HOST contains DomainController2.

This VM (DomainController2) is set up in the application group (because it is needed for all other server that are going to be linked).
(In the application group it is possible to select 1 or more VMs from a backup job. I find no such options in when I link a backup job. Thats part of the problem)

However DomianController2 is part of a Job that is named BackupHOST2 (witch is an ESX host containing many VM's including DomianController2)
And I want all VMs in this job tested with SureBackup, so I link this job....

So that means DomainController2 is part of the application gorup,
and when SureBackup loops threw the linked backup jobs (incluing BackupHost2) it wil eventually start DomianController2.
(Unless SureBacakup is aware that DomainController2 is allready running in the application gruop of the surebackup job, and decides to skip to start DomianControler2 from the linked backup job)

As I stated before, in the linked job I find no way to exclude a VM that is part of a backup job.

Maybe my explination was/is bad..but your reply did not answer my question.

Fiskepudding
Expert
Posts: 213
Liked: 26 times
Joined: Feb 01, 2012 7:24 am
Full Name: Espen Dykesteen
Contact:

Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by Fiskepudding » Apr 24, 2012 9:18 am

A workaround for this would to simply make 1 backup job for each VM on "HOST2" Then i can link all other bakcup jobs then "DomainCtontroller2" to the sure backup job.
However, when I asked aobut VM selections for backup jobs I got the udnerstanding that Selecting entire HOSTS was common practice:
Considerations, selecting entire ESX host in backup jobs?

Cokovic
Expert
Posts: 295
Liked: 59 times
Joined: Sep 06, 2011 8:45 am
Full Name: Haris Cokovic
Contact:

Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by Cokovic » Apr 24, 2012 9:42 am

Ah ok. I referred to your example above. If you want to test about 20 VMs then you are right this is not the way to go.

Why not just seperate the DCs in their own job and exclude DC2 from the entire host job?

Right now i'm testing what will happen if the same VM is in the application group and a linked job.

foggy
Veeam Software
Posts: 17715
Liked: 1481 times
Joined: Jul 11, 2011 10:22 am
Full Name: Alexander Fogelson
Contact:

Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by foggy » Apr 24, 2012 9:46 am

Espen, nothing to worry about, actually. SureBackup is smart enough and if a VM is contained both in application group and linked backup job, it will be fired up just once (from the application group).

Fiskepudding
Expert
Posts: 213
Liked: 26 times
Joined: Feb 01, 2012 7:24 am
Full Name: Espen Dykesteen
Contact:

Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by Fiskepudding » Apr 24, 2012 11:29 am

Rigth on :)

Thanx for clearing that up.

Cokovic
Expert
Posts: 295
Liked: 59 times
Joined: Sep 06, 2011 8:45 am
Full Name: Haris Cokovic
Contact:

Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by Cokovic » Apr 24, 2012 2:21 pm

Tested it and it works like foggy stated. The only issue i had was that the lab was still running after all VMs were processed (i didn't checked the box to keep the application group running).

Maybe you could give it a try Espen and report back your observations on this.

foggy
Veeam Software
Posts: 17715
Liked: 1481 times
Joined: Jul 11, 2011 10:22 am
Full Name: Alexander Fogelson
Contact:

Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by foggy » Apr 24, 2012 2:36 pm

Cokovic wrote:The only issue i had was that the lab was still running after all VMs were processed (i didn't checked the box to keep the application group running).
Yes, this is a known issue that will be addressed in v6.1.

ThomasMc
Expert
Posts: 293
Liked: 17 times
Joined: Apr 13, 2011 12:45 pm
Full Name: Thomas McConnell
Contact:

Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by ThomasMc » Apr 24, 2012 2:51 pm

foggy wrote: Yes, this is a known issue that will be addressed in v6.1.
Woohoo :)

Fiskepudding
Expert
Posts: 213
Liked: 26 times
Joined: Feb 01, 2012 7:24 am
Full Name: Espen Dykesteen
Contact:

Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by Fiskepudding » Apr 25, 2012 5:25 am

Yea I have the same behaviour. The lab stays running (even tho "keep the app. group running" is not checked)

I also have an issue where some VMs fails tests when they are linked, but passes the same test IF they simply put in the application group....(the order of boot i the same). But thats a different discussion. I opened a ticet yesterday 5186999.

Cokovic
Expert
Posts: 295
Liked: 59 times
Joined: Sep 06, 2011 8:45 am
Full Name: Haris Cokovic
Contact:

Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by Cokovic » Apr 25, 2012 7:40 am

Hi Espen,

thats interesting. Last year i've tested alot with SureBackup in v5. And there i had the same issue with SureBackup like you now. The linked job always failed on different VMs. Always one or two VMs from ten in the linked job hang and didn't start correctly. I've opened a case too but we never found a solution.

The only thing that worked for me was to reduce the amount of VMs that get processed concurrently to 1. By default it's set to 3. You can find this setting in the same window where you link the job. Maybe you will give it a try.

Fiskepudding
Expert
Posts: 213
Liked: 26 times
Joined: Feb 01, 2012 7:24 am
Full Name: Espen Dykesteen
Contact:

Re: SureBackup selecting VM

Post by Fiskepudding » Apr 25, 2012 10:50 am

hmm..

I assumed that myself.
I started out with giving 25% RAM to the all VMS in the job and running 3 at a time as default.
Because there were issues, I upped the RAM back to 100% still errors.
Finally set the count to current VMss to 1. Did not help ehither.
We have problems with about 30% of the VMs.
Always the same that fails when linked.

If I look at the VM booting on the console in vCenter, it never gets to the logon screen, it hangs on "Applying computer settings" for 10 minutes.(default 600sec).
HOWEVER it passes the Heartbeat test.
I have tried with longer timout. But 10 minutes should be more then enough.
When i run it in the application group it boots in well under 2 min.
(Same lab, same HW, running from the same backupjob, just not linked)

If I understand you correctly it helped to set the numbers of concurrent vms to 1?...
It does not for me, so maybe our problem is not related. We use Veeam 6.0.0.181

Thanx for the info tho.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Egor Yakovlev, iostrikov, Tarqy and 28 guests