Discussions specific to the VMware vSphere hypervisor
Post Reply
skydok
Veeam ProPartner
Posts: 68
Liked: 12 times
Joined: Jun 11, 2012 12:04 pm
Contact:

The Battle of the species: Veeam Native vs. EMC Data Domain

Post by skydok » Aug 10, 2015 6:24 am 2 people like this post

Hi Guys,
As part of my travels between customers i'm always getting the "Why should i invest in a Deduplication appliance?"
Well it has it advantages of course but lots of customer say they preffer to invest in 6TB Drives in a JBOD instead to get the same capacity at the end.
THEY BELIVE IN THE VEEAM NATIVE Compaction & LOW-COST DRIVES against the technology of deduplication appliance.

WELLLL...I wanted to once and for all show them the numbers so i did a DEMO for them and now you can see the results also.

http://skydok.com/2015/08/09/the-battle ... storeonce/

ENJOY!
Storage Solution Specialist
Veeam FAN
@shatztal
Blog: http://www.skydok.com

chrisdearden
Expert
Posts: 1530
Liked: 225 times
Joined: Jul 21, 2010 9:47 am
Full Name: Chris Dearden
Contact:

Re: The Battle of the species: Veeam Native v.s EMC Data Dom

Post by chrisdearden » Aug 10, 2015 6:29 am 1 person likes this post

Can you repeat the test but with non duplicate data for the incremental workloads ?

skydok
Veeam ProPartner
Posts: 68
Liked: 12 times
Joined: Jun 11, 2012 12:04 pm
Contact:

Re: The Battle of the species: Veeam Native v.s EMC Data Dom

Post by skydok » Aug 10, 2015 6:32 am

There will be Volume #2 Update for the post which will include the follwoing:
1.Non-Duplicated Data
2.Enterprise Applications (Exchange,SQL,FS)

I belive i will come to this in the Next week :)
Storage Solution Specialist
Veeam FAN
@shatztal
Blog: http://www.skydok.com

chrisdearden
Expert
Posts: 1530
Liked: 225 times
Joined: Jul 21, 2010 9:47 am
Full Name: Chris Dearden
Contact:

Re: The Battle of the species: Veeam Native v.s EMC Data Dom

Post by chrisdearden » Aug 10, 2015 8:00 am 1 person likes this post

Look forward to it :)

dellock6
Veeam Software
Posts: 5734
Liked: 1626 times
Joined: Jul 26, 2009 3:39 pm
Full Name: Luca Dell'Oca
Location: Varese, Italy
Contact:

Re: The Battle of the species: Veeam Native v.s EMC Data Dom

Post by dellock6 » Aug 10, 2015 12:52 pm 1 person likes this post

nice job indeed! Only doubt is the ingest performances, as max speed seems the same for each job, as the bottleneck is source...

It would be also interesting to see "restore" performances, once in a while :D
There's obviously a trade-off in choosing a dedup appliance, and a restore example would better explain in some designs a non-dedupe storage is preferred (and also on ingest performances) ;)
Luca Dell'Oca
Principal EMEA Cloud Architect @ Veeam Software

@dellock6
https://www.virtualtothecore.com/
vExpert 2011 -> 2019
Veeam VMCE #1

skydok
Veeam ProPartner
Posts: 68
Liked: 12 times
Joined: Jun 11, 2012 12:04 pm
Contact:

Re: The Battle of the species: Veeam Native v.s EMC Data Dom

Post by skydok » Aug 10, 2015 1:02 pm

I need to save somthing for later , no ?!? :)
Of coure the restore comperission was also planned and will be in the next Post as an indepent subject.
Storage Solution Specialist
Veeam FAN
@shatztal
Blog: http://www.skydok.com

Gostev
SVP, Product Management
Posts: 24818
Liked: 3575 times
Joined: Jan 01, 2006 1:01 am
Location: Baar, Switzerland
Contact:

Re: The Battle of the species: Veeam Native v.s EMC Data Dom

Post by Gostev » Aug 11, 2015 8:10 pm 1 person likes this post

Good first step, but yes - I would love to see results on more real-world workloads:
skydok wrote:1.Non-Duplicated Data
2.Enterprise Applications (Exchange,SQL,FS)
I believe i will come to this in the Next week :)
1. I think we can all guess the results here ;) are you perhaps thinking just a bunch of JPEGs here or something?
2. Now this will be a fun test - as contrary to popular belief, these workloads do not dedupe well at all ;)

skydok
Veeam ProPartner
Posts: 68
Liked: 12 times
Joined: Jun 11, 2012 12:04 pm
Contact:

Re: The Battle of the species: Veeam Native vs. EMC Data Dom

Post by skydok » Aug 11, 2015 9:51 pm 1 person likes this post

1.I'm going to Mix Pics/Movie Clips and Bin files. Any other suggestion?
2.I'm Sure it will be intresting too :) Do you have any suggestions here as weel?

I like that you all started to get into the details :) i deffently now do this in the comming weeks and will publish the Updates.
You will be notified don't worry .
Storage Solution Specialist
Veeam FAN
@shatztal
Blog: http://www.skydok.com

petergrande
Novice
Posts: 3
Liked: 2 times
Joined: Nov 07, 2014 7:31 am
Contact:

Re: The Battle of the species: Veeam Native vs. EMC Data Dom

Post by petergrande » Aug 16, 2015 10:28 pm 1 person likes this post

Great comparison post on dedupe factor differences , if I may give you a suggestion since I can see that source is probably the limiting part here, not sure what it is that limits it, Disk, NIC and so on.. anyway if you can bump up the source speed in any way that would be great for the performance comparison maybe, we use DD990s and I`ve seeen transfer speeds up around 3000 MB/s source deduped from a single host (not with Veeam though, we haven´t moved our Veeam environment to DD yet), also remember DD can handle quite a lot of simultaneous sessions with good results, the max sessions depends a little on which DD model though, so if you run a larger workload with more VMs simultaneously would also be great to see, not sure here if the CPU Core limitations apply to Veeam B&R in combination with DD, but I guess it does..

aporter
Novice
Posts: 8
Liked: 1 time
Joined: May 18, 2012 2:44 am
Full Name: Andrew Porter
Contact:

Re: The Battle of the species: Veeam Native vs. EMC Data Dom

Post by aporter » Aug 17, 2015 2:31 am 1 person likes this post

Thanks for running these tests and for sharing the results. It would be interesting to see how a target running Windows Server 2012 deduplication stacks up with the same tests as well.

mairiesuresnes
Enthusiast
Posts: 26
Liked: 2 times
Joined: Apr 21, 2015 11:50 am
Full Name: Suresnes
Contact:

Re: The Battle of the species: Veeam Native vs. EMC Data Dom

Post by mairiesuresnes » Aug 17, 2015 7:42 am 1 person likes this post

Very useful! Thanks

skydok
Veeam ProPartner
Posts: 68
Liked: 12 times
Joined: Jun 11, 2012 12:04 pm
Contact:

Re: The Battle of the species: Veeam Native vs. EMC Data Dom

Post by skydok » Aug 17, 2015 8:32 am

I would deffently like to pumb up my source , but currently the hardware is what it is :) I'm Testing currently the same Scenarios on physical HW as well (Physical DD etc), it will take my two-three weeks until all test are done . Transfer Speed isn't somthing i was looking to compare ,more the evffectifve ness of the capacity savings. Therfore all speed mettrics are simillar there which i ignored for now.
petergrande wrote:Great comparison post on dedupe factor differences , if I may give you a suggestion since I can see that source is probably the limiting part here, not sure what it is that limits it, Disk, NIC and so on.. anyway if you can bump up the source speed in any way that would be great for the performance comparison maybe, we use DD990s and I`ve seeen transfer speeds up around 3000 MB/s source deduped from a single host (not with Veeam though, we haven´t moved our Veeam environment to DD yet), also remember DD can handle quite a lot of simultaneous sessions with good results, the max sessions depends a little on which DD model though, so if you run a larger workload with more VMs simultaneously would also be great to see, not sure here if the CPU Core limitations apply to Veeam B&R in combination with DD, but I guess it does..
Storage Solution Specialist
Veeam FAN
@shatztal
Blog: http://www.skydok.com

skydok
Veeam ProPartner
Posts: 68
Liked: 12 times
Joined: Jun 11, 2012 12:04 pm
Contact:

Re: The Battle of the species: Veeam Native vs. EMC Data Dom

Post by skydok » Aug 17, 2015 8:32 am

Nice Idea , I'll add it also as a Feature request :)
aporter wrote:Thanks for running these tests and for sharing the results. It would be interesting to see how a target running Windows Server 2012 deduplication stacks up with the same tests as well.
Storage Solution Specialist
Veeam FAN
@shatztal
Blog: http://www.skydok.com

lightsout
Expert
Posts: 218
Liked: 58 times
Joined: Apr 10, 2014 4:13 pm
Contact:

Re: The Battle of the species: Veeam Native vs. EMC Data Dom

Post by lightsout » Aug 17, 2015 1:29 pm

Very nice! I'd like to see what happens if you enabled Windows' host based deduplication on top of it. :)

skydok
Veeam ProPartner
Posts: 68
Liked: 12 times
Joined: Jun 11, 2012 12:04 pm
Contact:

Re: The Battle of the species: Veeam Native vs. EMC Data Dom

Post by skydok » Aug 17, 2015 1:31 pm

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: Its a Secret :D :D :D :D :!: :!: :!:
lightsout wrote:Very nice! I'd like to see what happens if you enabled Windows' host based deduplication on top of it. :)
Storage Solution Specialist
Veeam FAN
@shatztal
Blog: http://www.skydok.com

ian0x0r
Veeam Vanguard
Posts: 221
Liked: 41 times
Joined: Nov 11, 2010 11:53 am
Full Name: Ian Sanderson
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: The Battle of the species: Veeam Native vs. EMC Data Dom

Post by ian0x0r » Aug 17, 2015 3:39 pm 2 people like this post

Nice tests and good comparison.

Would be good to see your results as well for GFS retention criteria. This for me at least is where Dedupe appliances such as the DD come into their own as a secondary storage target for longer term retention (backup copy jobs). Would be good to compare that against Server 2012 dedupe though as already requested :D. For recovery speeds though, JBOD / Veeam Native is far quicker in my experience.

Ian
https://www.snurf.co.uk

ar63
Novice
Posts: 3
Liked: never
Joined: Feb 17, 2016 2:58 pm
Full Name: AR

Re: The Battle of the species: Veeam Native vs. EMC Data Dom

Post by ar63 » Feb 29, 2016 2:17 pm

What Veeam Job compression level is better with a data domain storage? In my jobs i put "none" in that field bacause i prefer that is DD make dedu. But is it really the better choise?

Thanks.

skydok
Veeam ProPartner
Posts: 68
Liked: 12 times
Joined: Jun 11, 2012 12:04 pm
Contact:

Re: The Battle of the species: Veeam Native vs. EMC Data Dom

Post by skydok » Feb 29, 2016 2:33 pm

The DD is first of all using the DDboost mechanism which is very good for less network throughput.
The DD reduction will be very very good after that so i would recommend it for you. Don't use veeam's side therefore you have the option of Dedplication appliance as Repository.
Storage Solution Specialist
Veeam FAN
@shatztal
Blog: http://www.skydok.com

HannesK
Veeam Software
Posts: 4044
Liked: 497 times
Joined: Sep 01, 2014 11:46 am
Location: Austria
Contact:

Re: The Battle of the species: Veeam Native vs. EMC Data Dom

Post by HannesK » Feb 29, 2016 3:11 pm

It makes no difference :-)

As long as you do not have a gateway server in front of your DD it is irrelevant which compression level you use as this setting is ignored if proxy and repository are on the same server. Compression can save bandwidth if you have a gateway server but it has no influence on DD data reduction in any case. Reason:

If you add a DD as repository it will automatically be configured with the "decompress backup data blocks before storing" setting

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 49 guests