Veeam vs. vSphere Replication

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Veeam vs. vSphere Replication

Veeam Logoby pcantoni » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:21 am

Hi.
Can someone post the Key differentiators between VEEAM replica and vSphere 5.1 replication ?

Thanks in advance.

Pier
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Re: VEEAM vs vSphere 5.1 Replication

Veeam Logoby Gostev » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:32 am 2 people like this post

#1 limitation is that it provides single restore point only. Can stop at that, this is immediate show stopper for most customers I discussed vSphere replication with. Multiple restore points are absolutely essential, because just like "good" data, any corruption/virus/dataloss from the source VM is immediately replicated to target VM, and if you don't spot the problem and perform failover to replica fast enough (before the next replication cycle) - which is going to be impossible in most cases - then you are done.

Other limitations
• No failback
• No traffic compression
• No traffic throttling
• No swap exclusion
• No network customization (network mapping)
• No re-IP upon failover
• Minimum possible RPO is 15 minutes
• Basic VSS quiescing (no application-aware processing)
• Works within single vCenter only
• No ability to create container-based jobs (explicit VM selection only)
• Limited seeding options: cannot seed from backup, or using different VM as a seed (disk IDs have to match)
• Different ports for initial and incremental sync required
• No good reporting

Also, be aware that biggest marketing push around vSphere replication is technically incorrect statement!
Unlike other solutions, enabling vSphere replication on a VM does not impact I/O load, because it does not use VM snapshots

It is simply impossible to transfer specific state of running VM without some sort of snapshot even in theory! In reality, during each replication cycle they do create hidden snapshot to keep the replicated state intact, just different type of snapshot (exact same concept as Veeam reversed incremental).

PROS: No commit required, snapshot is simply discarded after replication cycle completes.
CONS: While replication runs, there is 3x I/O per each modified block that belongs to the replicated state. This is the I/O impact that got lost in marketing.

I consider this to still be a better than regular snapshots for some cases, but definitely not better by a mile.
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Re: VEEAM vs vSphere 5.1 Replication

Veeam Logoby Berniebgf » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:26 am

So VMware's doing "hidden" Copy on Write snapshots instead of traditional "Redirect-on-Write" snapshots? Interesting...

Bernie.
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Re: VEEAM vs vSphere 5.1 Replication

Veeam Logoby Gostev » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:07 pm 1 person likes this post

Correct. They never mentioned this helper snapshot in their presentation at VMworld, and kept me wondering about their "no I/O impact" claim - something completely impossible even in theory. So, I had to interrogate their developers to find out how it really works :D

In any case, I consider this approach to still be way better than native Hyper-V 2012 replica. Hyper-V uses journaling approach, meaning double write I/O at all times for protected VMs. Also, I assume Hyper-V replica does not transfer just the final state of each block, but essentially all blocks states since last replication (the whole journal is transferred, and then replayed on target). I guess, the only "benefit" of this approach is consistent and so predictable I/O impact (does not change when actual replication cycles are running)
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Re: Veeam vs. vSphere Replication

Veeam Logoby averylarry » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:27 pm

If I understand from this page:

http://www.vladan.fr/vmware-srm-5-1-whats-new/

The new vSphere Replication (VR) has been improved over since the 1st VR with SRM. The VR’s main improvements is the VSS integration (through VMware Tools) and doesn’t merely request OS quiescence, but flushes app/db writers if present. Can create application consistent copies of entire VMs.

It will do application aware processing. Unless it's something in-between . . ?

Boy it would be nice if Veeam could use those "Lightweight Delta" (LWD) files (snapshots).
It's strange to me that it cannot replicate the VM if it is powered off.
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Re: Veeam vs. vSphere Replication

Veeam Logoby Gostev » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:35 pm

Even your quote itself does not say anything about application-aware processing. Nothing beyond non-application aware quiescence, all the same old stuff added back in ESX 3.5 U2 (VMware Tools VSS).

We will not use LWD, because VMware does not provide any API around this that would allow 3rd party vendors to leverage this functionality. Besides, LWD has drawbacks too, for example it triples I/O for each modified block belonging to the replicated state, which results in significant I/O impact on production storage when replicating over slow links. So, it’s not necessarily as cool as VMware marketing makes you think it is.

We do have much better technology in the works though.
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[MERGED] vSphere Host Replication vs Veeam Backup & Replicat

Veeam Logoby ventura5150 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:00 am

Hi..
I am newbie in virtualization, I want to ask, what is difference of vSphere Host Replication (included on VMWare vSphere 5.1) vs Veeam Backup & Replication ?

Thx
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Re: VEEAM vs vSphere 5.1 Replication

Veeam Logoby bbosak » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:27 pm

So VMware's doing "hidden" Copy on Write snapshots instead of traditional "Redirect-on-Write" snapshots? Interesting...
When using vSphere Replication we never see the snapshot in the snapshot manager EXCEPT if there's already a snapshot in place. Then "vSphere Replication snapshot" appears in the snapshot manager.
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Re: Veeam vs. vSphere Replication

Veeam Logoby Dima P. » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:55 am

Hello Brian,

Yes, as mentioned above:
It is simply impossible to transfer specific state of running VM without some sort of snapshot even in theory! In reality, during each replication cycle they do create hidden snapshot to keep the replicated state consistent, just different type of snapshot (exact same concept as Veeam reversed incremental).
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Re: Veeam vs. vSphere Replication

Veeam Logoby Gostev » Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:08 pm

The snapshot vSphere replication creates is a special type of snapshot that is not visible in the Snapshot Manager.
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[MERGED] Veeam Replication vs. vsphere 5.5

Veeam Logoby pcantoni » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:16 am

Hi.
Can someone post the Key differentiators between VEEAM 7 replica and vSphere 5.5 replication ?

Thanks in advance.

Pier
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Re: Veeam vs. vSphere Replication

Veeam Logoby Vitaliy S. » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:52 am

Hi Pier,

vSphere replication now has an option to save mutliple restore points and replicate between different two vCenter Servers, but basically all core differentiators have remained the same.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Veeam vs. vSphere Replication

Veeam Logoby andersonts » Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:04 am

We did see SureReplica added to V7 as well which allows you to automate testing of replicas at the DR side. This is a big difference.
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Re: Veeam vs. vSphere Replication

Veeam Logoby vmKen » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:40 pm

There is some misleading information about how vSphere Replication works in here. There is NO snapshot of any sort created at the primary location, no "hidden" snapshot, no impact whatsoever to the running virtual machine. During VSS quiescing where VSS is used for W2k8/W2k12 there will be a snapshot done, because there is no other way to make those OSes quiescent due to the VSS implementation for those OSes. But there is absolutely no impact to the VM doing its writes, no write filter, no CoW, etc. Blocks are written to the vmdk exactly as they would for non-replicated VMs.
With non-VSS replicas, VR simply grabs the blocks that have changed from the VMDK that have already been written and flagged as changed since the last replication took place. No snapshot, no CoW, etc.
If a block is changed on the primary vmdk while in transit but not yet written to disk at the recovery location yet that one block will be redirected to a CoW until the block is acknowledged as written at the recovery site.
Without VSS there is no 'hidden snapshot'. With VSS for w2k8/w2k12 there is a snapshot because of the way MS does their VSS.

There is no triple I/O per block, that is misleading. The blocks for the primary vmdk are written to disk exactly once and that is it. It is then copied to the recovery site at time of replication and written to a redo log which then gets committed once the redo log is complete. The impact to the production VM is nothing as it is just simply a block write like any other block write.
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Re: Veeam vs. vSphere Replication

Veeam Logoby averylarry » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:30 pm 2 people like this post

vmKen -- So what do you think LWD is?

http://thesaffageek.co.uk/2012/08/27/vs ... plication/
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