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Supi_Du
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Veean Backup Space vs vranger7

Post by Supi_Du » Apr 14, 2014 10:57 am

Hello Veeam Support,

till today I'm using Vranger but I want to switch to veeam7. (bette Product Support, Features)

So I did a little testing:

Homelab : Intel i5-3470 Quad, 8GB Ram, Win7 74bit Host, Workstation 8

Esxi 5.0 as Guest . ESXi with 3 VM's: Win7,Srv08R2, Srv2012. all just a fresh install. Thin Disks.

Second PC, Laptop with Win8.1 Pro and Hpyer-V: one SRV12 VM , Vcenter 5.0 and Vranger 7 and Veeam 7 installed . USB Drive attached as storage for Backups-

Single 2008R2 VM Backup:
Vranger7 : 4GB
Veeam7 9GB

All the above 3 VM's:
Vranger 7 : 11GB und 13min
Veeam 7 : 17GB und 25min

Where is my fault that I'm not seeing benfits of compression and Dedup with veeam?

v.eremin
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Re: Veean Backup Space vs vranger7

Post by v.eremin » Apr 14, 2014 11:37 am

I'm wondering what particular settings are specified for compression and deduplication options. Thanks.

Supi_Du
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Re: Veean Backup Space vs vranger7

Post by Supi_Du » Apr 14, 2014 1:34 pm

Compression is set to "optimal" and dedup is set "activ".
I don't startet this Thread to say "Hey, Software X is better". Just made a first comparision to get a feeling.

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Re: Veean Backup Space vs vranger7

Post by foggy » Apr 14, 2014 1:41 pm

And what kind of compression/dedupe settings are configured on vRanger side? Are you considering full backup job runs in both cases?

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Re: Veean Backup Space vs vranger7

Post by v.eremin » Apr 14, 2014 1:43 pm

Forgot to ask - are there any disk exclusions specified? Also, as far as I'm aware, there are two types of backup supported by vRanger - physical and virtual. Which one is specified in your case? Thanks.

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Re: Veean Backup Space vs vranger7

Post by Gostev » Apr 14, 2014 2:41 pm

Try backing up a different, production VM. I think what happens here is that the VM you are testing had a lot of data deleted from it before you started the testing (for example, setup files). This is not typical for standard workload of any Windows server application I can think of. Normally, the data set of any server keeps growing forever (and when data IS deleted, it is only deleted to be replaced with some new data, for example transaction log processing works like that).

If you really want to "fix" this specific server's backup size, you can simply run sdelete against it. But again, under normal circumstances while backing up your production workloads, you should not need to be doing this.

On an unrelated note, our "High" compression might be closer to what vRanger is using. Our "optimal" is specifically optimized for very low CPU usage. CPU usage becomes an issue when you have dozens of backup proxies backing up thousands of VMs, which is why this is the default.

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Re: Veean Backup Space vs vranger7

Post by Supi_Du » Apr 14, 2014 6:28 pm

I do not realy got the point of you Gostev. What you mean with "had a lot of data deleted from it before you started the testing (for example, setup files)" ?
New test with High Compression. Still better Result for vranger. both full backups
Image

Image

foggy
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Re: Veean Backup Space vs vranger7

Post by foggy » Apr 14, 2014 8:03 pm

Anton is talking about NTFS design here. Deleting files from NTFS volume does not change the actual content of the corresponding disk blocks, instead those blocks are marked as unused. Since Veeam B&R is a block-level image-based solution, all it cares is the contents of blocks. If a block is not zeroed, but has some data in it (though it might be marked as free by NTFS), it will be backed up. If you have large amount of blocks like that, those blocks get into the backup file and hence you see the large backup file size (while non image-based solutions will copy actual data only). This is why sdelete should help to obtain comparable backup sizes.

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Re: Veean Backup Space vs vranger7

Post by Gostev » Apr 15, 2014 1:29 pm

Supi_Du wrote:3 VM's: Win7,Srv08R2, Srv2012. all just a fresh install. Thin Disks.

Single 2008R2 VM Backup:
Vranger7 : 4GB
Veeam7 9GB
Hi Stefan,

So these results looked somewhat suspicious to me, and I've asked our QC to perform the exact same test: backup fresh install of Server 2008R2. No extra steps such as drive cleanup or anything - literally just install OS, logon for the first time, and perform the backup.

This test resulted in 3.2GB backup file (with "High" compression). I have no idea why you are seeing almost 3x larger backups in your testing...

Thanks!
Anton

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Re: Veean Backup Space vs vranger7

Post by Supi_Du » Apr 15, 2014 3:45 pm

Hello Anton,

The first test where done with just default settings for both software, aka Optimal setting for compression in veeam.

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Re: Veean Backup Space vs vranger7

Post by Gostev » Apr 15, 2014 6:50 pm

We are getting 4GB with the default settings in this test...

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Re: Veean Backup Space vs vranger7

Post by Supi_Du » Apr 16, 2014 7:20 am

@Gostev: As we not compare the exact same environement your 4GB is not comparable. (As not written: your backup was runing against a fresh SRV2008R2 Install?
Do you test the same Setup with Vranger ?

I will repeat my test today with this Base Media:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/de-de/evalcen ... 75713.aspx
Windows Server 2008 R2 with SP1 Standard Edition.

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Re: Veean Backup Space vs vranger7

Post by foggy » Apr 16, 2014 9:22 am

Supi_Du wrote:your backup was runing against a fresh SRV2008R2 Install?
Yes, fresh install of Windows Server 2008 R2 was tested.

Btw, does the VM in testing consist of a single system disk?

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Re: Veean Backup Space vs vranger7

Post by Supi_Du » Apr 16, 2014 9:44 am

Yes single Disk. But as i wrote, you should test your own with vranger. Otherwise these results gives no real Information.

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Re: Veean Backup Space vs vranger7

Post by foggy » Apr 16, 2014 9:51 am

Backup size of the same fresh Windows OS installation should be comparable, regardless of software used and other environment specifics. Btw, could you please check the file size reported by the OS, not the software itself?

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