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briggs
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Win2012 dedup volumes query

Post by briggs » Dec 06, 2013 11:26 am

Hi,
We've experimented briefly with Win2012 dedup, and it seems the way forward for us, enabling it undoubtably saves us a fairly large percentage of disk space (35%+)
My question is, if and when we migrate to Win2012 for our file and print servers, we'll still be backing up with Veeam of course. But are there any implications with regards to restoring the disks and or the guest files of dedup volumes? Is there anything I should know? Will veeam backup the server in its dedup state (ie smaller backups) or will it ignore the dedup?
Just after a bit of insight please, it's really the key selling point for us, so I need to fully understand the reality before I spend the companies money on it all!
Many thanks, Alan

foggy
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Re: Win2012 dedup volumes query

Post by foggy » Dec 06, 2013 3:52 pm

briggs wrote:But are there any implications with regards to restoring the disks and or the guest files of dedup volumes?
To restore files from deduplicated volumes, backup server must be installed on Windows Server 2012 with Data Deduplication feature enabled in the OS settings (this is mentioned in the release notes document).
briggs wrote:Will veeam backup the server in its dedup state (ie smaller backups) or will it ignore the dedup?
Veeam B&R is an image-level solution, so it will backup the VM image in its actual (deduped) state. Note that despite the smaller amount of data inside the guest, data deduplication technology produces considerable amount of changed blocks, so expect large increments for such VMs.

briggs
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Re: Win2012 dedup volumes query

Post by briggs » Dec 07, 2013 9:41 am

Thanks for that.
Your comment about large increments, just how large are we talking? Do you think with the smaller initial full (as it's dedup'ed) would offset the bigger size of the incrementals? We do Mon-Fri twice-daily backups, for a month, before then next full (so at least 40 incrementals exist), so if I end up with much bigger incrementals, my backup storage might run out of disk space! There's always a downside to everything :-( Grrrrr

foggy
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Re: Win2012 dedup volumes query

Post by foggy » Dec 09, 2013 6:00 am

I guess it depends on such factors as the amount of actual data, how well they dedupe, amount of changes produced by VM, etc. You can test to see what increments will look like in your case.

mwiseley
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[MERGED] Backing up Server 2012 Deduplicated volumes

Post by mwiseley » Feb 25, 2014 1:52 pm

Our main file server is Windows server 2012 and we use the built in Server deduplication on the volumes. This works great, however when I back it up using Veeam, my 2 TB of data become 4 TB. This is confusing to me as Veeam is supposed to be doing deduplication as well and while I understand it would not be able to deduplicate the data more it does seem odd that the data almost doubles when going to the backup. Are there special settings that I should use for the backup? Has anyone else experienced this? I'm using inline deduplication, optimal Compression and Local Target for Optimizations.

Thanks,
Mark

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Re: Win2012 dedup volumes query

Post by foggy » Feb 25, 2014 2:13 pm

Mark, most likely this is caused by large number of "dirty" blocks (unused by the OS but not zeroed due to how NTFS works, as deleting the data in NTFS does not actually touch the content of the corresponding blocks), which are copied during backup.

briggs
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Re: Win2012 dedup volumes query

Post by briggs » Feb 26, 2014 10:02 am

Mark, I really didn't want to hear that! We're planning a 2012 migration for this year, the main reason being the dedup feature to help us out with our ever growing file servers.
I really can't afford to save space on the SAN, but end up with bigger backups!
Can you tell me if the 2TB of data is deduped more than 50%? ie. if you had no OS dedup, would the backup of been 4TB anyway? Or are the backups bigger than they would of been on a 2008 server say?
What about incrementals, are they suffering the same jump in size of 50%?
There's always something to spoil the party :)

Thanks,
Alan

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Re: Win2012 dedup volumes query

Post by foggy » Feb 26, 2014 10:25 am

briggs wrote:I really can't afford to save space on the SAN, but end up with bigger backups!
You have to be ready for large increments in this case, since deduplication works inside the guest seriously affecting the number of changed blocks, while Veeam B&R works on the virtual disk level and has to copy all those changed blocks.

briggs
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Re: Win2012 dedup volumes query

Post by briggs » Feb 26, 2014 11:26 am

Do we know how large? Is there any sort of calculations to be done? It's making me very nervous, maybe I should of kept Arcserve (tongue in cheek :))

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Re: Win2012 dedup volumes query

Post by veremin » Feb 26, 2014 11:27 am

Do we know how large?
No, we don't, as it varies dramatically. So, only the actual tests are likely to clarify it for you. Thanks.

mwiseley
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Re: Win2012 dedup volumes query

Post by mwiseley » Feb 27, 2014 10:56 pm

briggs wrote:Mark, I really didn't want to hear that! We're planning a 2012 migration for this year, the main reason being the dedup feature to help us out with our ever growing file servers.
I really can't afford to save space on the SAN, but end up with bigger backups!
Can you tell me if the 2TB of data is deduped more than 50%? ie. if you had no OS dedup, would the backup of been 4TB anyway? Or are the backups bigger than they would of been on a 2008 server say?
What about incrementals, are they suffering the same jump in size of 50%?
There's always something to spoil the party :)

Thanks,
Alan
So... our incremental backups are using between 20-40 Gigs each and we are doing a backup daily. Not too bad considering how large the drives are.
As for our deduplication rate on the File server, we have multiple drives and here are the rates,
26% - Small file share
48% - Main Office share of documents
27% - Images and backups
29% - Home directories
41% - Software
30% - Production file share

Also we are a heavy pdf shop so that probably brings our office and production share rates down a bit as pdf's do not dedupe very well.

As for the size if we had not deduped, well I don't know that one as we have never backed it up with Veeam prior to the deduplication. We were using SAN snapshot and replication.

dcarey
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Re: Win2012 dedup volumes query

Post by dcarey » Mar 03, 2014 12:25 pm

This is what we've been seeing. The dedupe process seems to generate more cbt our users generate on a daily basis. Be interested to know what others are doing as I'm on the verge of turning off dedupe for this very reason and going old skool.

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[MERGED] Backing up Windows Server 2012 R2 Deduped volumes

Post by B&R » Dec 17, 2015 11:33 am

Hello,

Are there any considerations / remarks / useful things to know when backing up Windows Server 2012 R2 deduped volumes? Our storage is first a direct attached 16-disk array and after that an HP StoreOnce shelve.

B&R
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Re: [MERGED] Backing up Windows Server 2012 R2 Deduped volum

Post by B&R » Dec 17, 2015 12:37 pm

A specific question that comes to mind: If i start a restore job 'Guest files (Windows)', will I be able to copy files from the deduped volume to another server?

veremin
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Re: Win2012 dedup volumes query

Post by veremin » Dec 17, 2015 1:12 pm 1 person likes this post


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