Recovery: total disaster (1.5.0.306), Case # 01818507

[Erhard]

Hello,

on Friday June 3rd we had to perform a recovery for one of our customers because he had caught himself a crypto virus.

We booted the recovery CD we had created on the very same PC using the option to include drivers.

Unfortunately it seems that "include hardware drivers from this computer (recommended" had not worked, because we could not use USB keyboard or USB mouse.

So we reverted to a PS/2 keyboard which did work, but it was not very comfortable to work without a mouse.

Then we had to notify that we could not access USB hard drives which was a bit disturbing, because the backups resided on such drives.

So we got the hard drives out of their USB cases and connected them via S-ATA, still working without mouse, than you very much.

Recovery started - but it resulted in a failure because it could not access some file.

We investigated everything: the new drives had been partitioned and had got the GUID from the backup. The backup file seemed okay.

We started recovery againg because it might have been that Veeam did not know about the newly created partitions and that thing might work with pre-partitioned drives - well, it did not.

So we installed the original drives where Veeam Endpoint Backup was installed running windows so we had working keyboard, working mouse and working USB drives.

We connected the new drives via USB, but hey - Veeam Endpoint backup seems to dislike USB drives as a recovery destination.

Well, I have to tell you that I strongly dislike Veeam as well. You should put that procedure in a commercial to advertise Veeam. Potential customers will be overwhelmed from the ease of product usage, won't they?

However we ended up performing a multi-volume restore running windows from the original drives to new S-ATA drives and performing a row of repair actions afterwards to get the restored drives bootable.

I can hardly tell you how grateful I am: the recovery should have taken minutes, an hour for all systems in total but it ended up in 6 hours, part of those being my spare time.

The recovery boot medium requires a serious review in my opinion.

(Btw, we tried to call Veeam Support but got blocked because Veeam Endpoint Backup support is only provided via the website. But when things are urgent and time is running fast ....)

Considering the fact that we sold Veeam B&R to almost every customer of ours I now have to thing about something: do we trust in Veeam because it is so good - or do we trust in Veeam because others are even worse?

Well, one more thing: typing all this stuff the forum timed-out in the background and when I tried to submit things, everything got lost. Fortunately I had been so clever to backup my text to notepad before ...

CU, Erhard

[Dima P.]

Hi Erhard,

Sorry to hear that you have negative experience with recovery media. Can you elaborate how your USB mouse was connected (directly or via usb hub) and what device you were restoring? If it’s a laptop – can you share the model? Also on what operating system recovery media was created? Thanks.

[Gostev]

Perhaps you are restoring to some uncommon hardware that our Recovery Media does not yet support today. We will be more than happy to investigate this for you because we're very much interested in enhancing its compatibility. This way, we can make sure you don't have issues performing similar recoveries in future!

Considering the fact that we sold Veeam B&R to almost every customer of ours I now have to thing about something: do we trust in Veeam because it is so good - or do we trust in Veeam because others are even worse?

This part is confusing. Your post above seems to be talking about Veeam Endpoint Backup (new free product with no official support), however in this comment you suddenly switch to Veeam Backup & Replication (9 year old commercial product with full support). Can you confirm what product are you having the issue with?

[cdeviney]

I had similar results using Veeam Endpoint (free).

I had to use 'bare metal recovery', 'local storage', 'entire computer', 'restore'...as best that I can recall.

[Delo123]

Maybe all the USB Ports were USB3.0 like the new Intel NUCS? Anyone know if they are supported yet?

[rreed]

I backup my home laptop to USB HDD - and had to recover it - both w/o issue. Works fine. Approx. 4-5 year old Dell, I think Toshiba USB HDD less than a year old.

If you need PS/2 keyboard, sounds like quite legacy hardware. Good point on USB hub, typically when you get down to very base drivers/BIOS, things won't be seen on the other side of a USB hub. Go direct, and if one doesn't work, try another.

[kapple]

Veeam Endpoint Backup worked flawlessly for me when the hard drive in my laptop died. Yes, I use a wireless USB mouse/keyboard as well.

[mkaec]

So we reverted to a PS/2 keyboard which did work, but it was not very comfortable to work without a mouse.

At my college job, a PC came in for installation to the residential network and we did not have a mouse that worked with it. This incident quickly identified which technicians would go on to be senior technicians.

Considering the fact that we sold Veeam B&R to almost every customer of ours I now have to thing about something: do we trust in Veeam because it is so good - or do we trust in Veeam because others are even worse?

I imagine it is a little of both. I think Veeam products are good, but that baseline has been very low for a long time.

[ddayton]

Each variation of vendor/model desktop and laptop i have deployed with Veeam Endpoint Backup (EPB) I have always created the boot media and tested booting it and in most cases went through a trial backup and restore. I avoid USB 3.0 ports when doing a bare metal restore because the 3.0 hardware typically takes special drivers. I have had only one model of an HP desktop that the USB mouse and keyboard did not work, but fortunately the desktop also had PS/2 for both. I would be afraid to attempt using a USB drive on such a desktop for the backup media, but in my case all of my EPB's target B&R repositories at work and that is over the network. I have successfully retored three of these desktops from a full backup. At home I also use EPB and there I use an external USB hard drive (WD 2TB) and I have successfuly restored my wife's HP Envy laptop that was running Windows 8.1. I have used other products that cost plenty of money that claim bare metal restore and it really depends on how well WinPE supports the hardware because they didn't work in all cases either. EPB is a great free tool, but it is up to us to test and verify our installations and take some of the responsibility.

[rockandroller]

I recently restored via 'EPB' to an older machine we keep up in the ceiling, booting from USB restore key in a USB hub at the end of a long active USB extension (wireless mouse and keyboard dongle was also in the same hub).
I was very pleased at the performance, restoring from a network share.

[Dima P.]

USB 3.0 indeed requires additional driver - otherwise it operates as USB 2.0 (might require enabling 3.0 support in BIOS sometimes). Regarding the recovery media, drivers are either collected during its creation (it case you used the collect drivers option which is checked by default) or it can be installed manually during recovery via Load Drivers utility.

Hidden gem #1: you can use only keyboard during BMR as regular Microsoft ‘tab and arrows’ keys are fully supported
Hidden gem #2: you can use touch screen (but that again requires drivers to be collected)

[ds2]

Hello,

with VEB I've done a restore of a physical W2012 R2 Standard to completly different hardware. Only do not inject drives during restore and everything went fine. No BSOD or anything else at boot. Just install the new drivers, create a new recoverymedia an start a new backupchain. In my point of few VEB has realy done a great job for me!

For sure I have some addational wishes for VEB, but don't forget we ware talking about a free product (also free for commercial use).

Greetings

Rene

[Erhard]

Hello,

sorry for the late reply but I am kind of busy ...

I will try to answer most questions. In case I overlooked something, please tell me.

> Can you elaborate how your USB mouse was connected (directly or via usb hub)

No USB hub was used.

> what device you were restoring?

A Fujitsu PC (Business Line).

> Also on what operating system recovery media was created?

Windows 7. But I am not sure whether it was 32 or 64 bit.

> Maybe all the USB Ports were USB3.0

The system had both USB 2.0 and 3.0 ports and of course keyboard and mouse were connected to USB 2.0 directly.

> Veeam Endpoint Backup and Veeam B&R

Since I have a lot of problems with both I am wondering if the brand is a good choice at all.

> Hidden gem #...

If a recovery is required (especially the entire system) there is no time to test this and test that and try around. Time is critical and things have to work. Everyone can do backups. I need something that can recover properly.

> Only do not inject drives during restore

What do you mean? This sounds like some important hint! When I created the recovery medium (ISO) on those PCs I used "Include network settings from this computer" and "Include hardware drivers from this computer" options from the "Create Recovery Media" wizzard. Should I uncheck "Include hardware drivers from this computer"? I thought it would be useful to have the hard drive controller driver on the recovery medium because otherwise it might not be able to access any drives?!

Best regards,

Erhard

[Erhard]

Hello again,

> Only do not inject drives during restore

Do you really mean "drives"?

I am asking because I read "drivers" ....

Of course I did not plug-in or unplug drives while the restore was in progress.

Best regards, Erhard

[ds2]

What do you mean? This sounds like some important hint! When I created the recovery medium (ISO) on those PCs I used "Include network settings from this computer" and "Include hardware drivers from this computer" options from the "Create Recovery Media" wizzard. Should I uncheck "Include hardware drivers from this computer"? I thought it would be useful to have the hard drive controller driver on the recovery medium because otherwise it might not be able to access any drives?!

Sorry,I meant drivers!

To have the drivers in the recoverymedia is realy good if you restore to the same machine or exactly the same hardware. That is the reason why I create for each machine a new recoverymedia.

But if you restore to a new machine with other hardware then I use the option to not inject the drivers during the recovery, because wrong drivers causes BSOD or anything else.

[91gsixty]

Let me weigh in.

I had a similar issue. (still not resolved) with a HP Elite desktop 800.

Been using VBR for years, but first time using EPB. I tried the process with a new machine and it backed up just fine on a external USB disk. So i tried a restore right after a full backup.

The system only restored fine, but NO keyboard or NO mouse, both devices are USB. I tried all the USB ports from the front to the back and non will work.

I haven't tried a PS2 mouse or keyboard, cause those have been in the garbage for years.

[91gsixty]

UPDATE:

I was able to get back into the computer with peripherals by Running "SafeMode w/t Networking"
I then Uninstalled the "Intel(R) Usb 3.0 Root Hub" and DELETE driver. Then rescan for hardware changes and point the device to the original driver.
Rebooted and my keyboard and mouse worked again.

[JasonC]

I did a restore recently back to exactly the same system that the original backup was done from and it failed with BSOD even in safe mode.... partly as a test and partly to duplicate complete system to another PC with exactly same hardware. (all I did was switch out the main disk on restore but the PC was identical)

When creating the media you should use the option to include drivers in the media because this way network adapters and non-standard mass storage devices will be available in the restore environment when doing the restore.

Problem is after the restore is complete the default option is to 'inject' these drivers which have been captured back into the restored system.

I would refer to this forum topic page because that describes the issue and the fix.
veeam-endpoint-backup-f33/restore-compl ... 88-45.html
and yes USB3 drivers in particular seemed to be the problem they don't like being injected even if they are already installed - I had done other restores previously without issues on other backups/hardware.

If you have older recovery media from a previous version you may find this option is not available as I think its only recently been added. The new media when generated will restore old backups however...

[mkaec]

All these descriptions of restore problems remind me of how good we have it with VMs. Back in the day when everything was physical, there were a lot more problems like this.

[Erhard]

> But if you restore to a new machine with other hardware

This was not the case. It was the same machine the recovery medium was created on. We just used a new hard drive.

Gtx, Erhard