Discussions specific to tape backups
newfirewallman
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Feature Request (Tape and Forever Incremental)

Post by newfirewallman » Apr 01, 2015 7:28 pm

When someone has large backups to tape that they would like to run weekly, but also get daily backups to disk jobs fail. It would be great for the incremental backup job to run like normal and merge data when the tape job is complete.

Dima P.
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Re: Feature Request (Tape and Forever Incremental)

Post by Dima P. » Apr 01, 2015 8:50 pm

Hello Blake,
get daily backups to disk jobs fail. It would be great for the incremental backup job to run like normal and merge data when the tape job is complete
I am not sure I got this. If backup to disk job fails and there is no increment – there is nothing to backup on tape.

However, you might be interested that we have a virtual full backup to tape feature available since version 8. It allows creating the full backup on tape from the incremental restore point on disk according to the specified schedule (by schedule I mean choosing the exact day when you want to have a full backup on tape, created from an increment on disk).

v.eremin
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Re: Feature Request (Tape and Forever Incremental)

Post by v.eremin » Apr 02, 2015 10:08 am

When someone has large backups to tape that they would like to run weekly, but also get daily backups to disk jobs fail.
Can you elaborate on your request? You have two jobs (backup and backup to tape one), sometimes it happens that the backup to tape job takes longer than expected, and the subsequent run of the backup job fails due to files being locked, correct? And you want to have sort of timeout after which the backup job can proceed smoothly?

newfirewallman
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Re: Feature Request (Tape and Forever Incremental)

Post by newfirewallman » Apr 02, 2015 12:07 pm

I can elaborate. There are actually a couple different things going on when you have your source backups set as forever incremental. Lets say i keep my retention at 7 points on disk, I need to run backups nightly and get a "full" backup off to tape on fridays.
If my file server backup job is 10 TB my tape job takes 1-2 days to get a backup off to tape because of the size it can't finish before the next normal backup to disk occurs, which causes the tape job to fail. The other issue (Feature) is how to synthesize the full to tape WITHOUT all the incrementals. In my example i only need the 10TB file to disk on friday. Not the 10TB vbk and 6 vib's which would total 14TB. So my options to work around this issue have been:
1. Try and do incremental with synthetic fulls on Friday (transform so i actually have disk space). If the disk IO can keep up this works and i can get it off to tape before the next friday (not the most efficient solution because of IO).
or
2. Only process the fulls and not process incrementals. This gets the size to tape down to the appropriate size, but i'm always a week behind on tape and can't really control if the VBK is even on a friday as in forever incremental is just goes off the first time it was ran (or new active full) and number of retention points.

* Would be nice sometime to keep 14 retention points and only synthesize latest friday to tape, what i would love to do, except i would use 10-15 LTO6 tapes per week (and have redundant restore points from week to week)

v.Eremin wrote: Can you elaborate on your request? You have two jobs (backup and backup to tape one), sometimes it happens that the backup to tape job takes longer than expected, and the subsequent run of the backup job fails due to files being locked, correct? And you want to have sort of timeout after which the backup job can proceed smoothly?
Correct. Except i don't want a timeout, i just want the next incremental to run and wait until the tape job finishes before merging.

In my environment besides the job example about i have another 6 backup jobs ranging from 500GB (full) to 2.5TB(full) so you can see how it becomes a compounding concern.

Please keep me posted as this/these are some of the biggest frustations with an otherwise outstanding product.

v.eremin
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Re: Feature Request (Tape and Forever Incremental)

Post by v.eremin » Apr 02, 2015 2:17 pm

Correct. Except i don't want a timeout, i just want the next incremental to run and wait until the tape job finishes before merging.
Speaking about workarounds, you might want to set a certain script as a pre-job command. The script will check whether the tape job is running and proceed to execution only if it is not. Thanks.

newfirewallman
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Re: Feature Request (Tape and Forever Incremental)

Post by newfirewallman » Apr 06, 2015 12:48 pm

This would be really nice if it could be done somehow:
2. Only process the fulls and not process incrementals. This gets the size to tape down to the appropriate size, but i'm always a week behind on tape and can't really control if the VBK is even on a friday as in forever incremental is just goes off the first time it was ran (or new active full) and number of retention points.

* Would be nice sometime to keep 14 retention points and only synthesize latest friday to tape, what i would love to do, except i would use 10-15 LTO6 tapes per week (and have redundant restore points from week to week)

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Re: Feature Request (Tape and Forever Incremental)

Post by v.eremin » Apr 06, 2015 1:02 pm

Only process the fulls and not process incrementals.
Hmm, what if you untick "process incremental" option in the settings of a backup to tape job and make process only full backups?

newfirewallman
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Re: Feature Request (Tape and Forever Incremental)

Post by newfirewallman » Apr 06, 2015 1:04 pm

That will only grab the VBK which is a week old. It won't synthesize the full on the latest Friday. So if you had 14 retention points your offsite to tape data would be two weeks old.

v.eremin
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Re: Feature Request (Tape and Forever Incremental)

Post by v.eremin » Apr 06, 2015 1:50 pm

Then, I'd suggest waiting for Update 2 and stick to synthesized virtual full backup (that currently requires "process incremental" option being enabled).

newfirewallman
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Re: Feature Request (Tape and Forever Incremental)

Post by newfirewallman » Apr 09, 2015 11:10 am

Great! I can't WAIT!!!!

v.eremin
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Re: Feature Request (Tape and Forever Incremental)

Post by v.eremin » Apr 09, 2015 12:43 pm


nathanael.duke
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Re: Feature Request (Tape and Forever Incremental)

Post by nathanael.duke » Apr 14, 2015 12:52 am

I recently got a feature request for fuzzy matching when creating VSBs, so that in situations where a backup day is skipped, a VSB is still created with the next point closest to the intended VSB day.

What do you think?

v.eremin
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Re: Feature Request (Tape and Forever Incremental)

Post by v.eremin » Apr 14, 2015 11:06 am

If on a given day specified for VSB creation the backup job doesn't create anything, a tape job should look backwards and create VSB out from the closest restore point; is that what you're asking for? Thanks.

newfirewallman
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Re: Feature Request (Tape and Forever Incremental)

Post by newfirewallman » Apr 22, 2015 6:08 pm

So last thing with the update coming out any day now, will it also continue to run the tape job if a new backup job us running?

v.eremin
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Re: Feature Request (Tape and Forever Incremental)

Post by v.eremin » Apr 23, 2015 10:43 am

Will a tape job keep creating a virtual synthesized full backup, if a source backup job runs at the same time? Is that what you're asking?

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