Veeam Oracle DB backup work with RMAN together?

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Re: Veeam Oracle DB backup work with RMAN together?

Veeam Logoby antran » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:21 am

@Gostev and Andreas: Thanks for your reply.
Can we talk abt this recommendation from Veeam:
1/ Basically, VMware tool quiescence is recommended for your basic Linux VM's? is it right?
2/ For other VM like Microsoft Active Directory, Microsoft Exchange, Microsoft SharePoint, Microsoft SQL Server, Oracle, we should use application aware processing, right?
3/ How about other Microsoft VM which are not listed as number 2? Should we use VMware tool quiescence ? Or according to veeam-backup-replication-f2/transactionally-consistent-backups-t1557.html, we should setup VMware VSS integration components in VMware Tools in each VM? How can we do it? We are using vSphere 6.5 so i wonder if it's already integrated VMware VSS in VMware tools?
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Re: Veeam Oracle DB backup work with RMAN together?

Veeam Logoby Andreas Neufert » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:32 am

There is a deep artical that describe the options:
https://bp.veeam.expert/job_configurati ... ssing.html

In general:
Windows => Always enable Veeam Guest processing if you can.
Linux with Oracle => Always enable Veeam Guest processing if DB is in ArchiveLog mode
Linux => Usually the server is backed up in crash consistent mode. This is as well the default when you do VMware Tools Quiescense. At VMware Tools the freeze of the disks is not enabled by default. If you want to use it enable it in VMware Tools and Enable VMware Tools Quiescense in the Veeam Job under Storage-Advanced-VMware. Do not enable Veeam Guest processing then as it would overwrite it. The freeze of the disks can lead into application downtimes, please check with the application vendor if they support it.
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Re: Veeam Oracle DB backup work with RMAN together?

Veeam Logoby antran » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:04 am

@Andreas: Thank
For Windows: You mean we still should enable Veeam Guest Proccessing even if the VM is File Server or there's no any VSS-application like Exchange, Sharepoint, MSSQL, AD?
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Re: Veeam Oracle DB backup work with RMAN together?

Veeam Logoby antran » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:34 am

Sorry , I'd like to clarify my question:
For Windows:
1/ You mean we still should enable Veeam Guest Proccessing even if the VM is File Server or there's no any VSS-application like Exchange, Sharepoint, MSSQL, AD? That's mean we need an GUEST OS account to enable it from Veeam?
2/ What happen if we enable VMware Tools Quiescense and freeze disk at VMware Tools for these Windows VM? I read from the artical that we have Windows and VMware VSS-supported applications (without known user for Guest OS processing)? What is that?
3/ For these Windows (File Server), is it possible if we backup it in crash consistent mode?
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Re: Veeam Oracle DB backup work with RMAN together?

Veeam Logoby antran » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:40 am

Sorry , I'd like to clarify my question:
For Windows:
1/ You mean we still should enable Veeam Guest Proccessing even if the VM is File Server or there's no any VSS-application like Exchange, Sharepoint, MSSQL, AD? That's mean we need an GUEST OS account to enable it from Veeam?
2/ What happen if we enable VMware Tools Quiescense and freeze disk at VMware Tools for these Windows VM? I read from the artical that we have Windows and VMware VSS-supported applications (without known user for Guest OS processing)? What is that?
3/ For these Windows (File Server), is it possible if we backup it in crash consistent mode?

According to https://helpcenter.veeam.com/docs/backu ... tml?ver=95, the VSS is already enable in VMware tools and no required steps to enable it again?

To quiesce VMs, Veeam Backup & Replication uses the VMware VSS component in VMware Tools. Starting from vSphere 3.5 U2, VMware Tools support Microsoft VSS. To use the VMware VSS component in VMware Tools, the VM must run one of the following OSes:

Microsoft Windows Server 2003 32-bit or 64-bit.
All latest updates and patches must be installed on the VM guest OS. Microsoft Windows 2003 SP1 at minimum is recommended.

Microsoft Windows Vista 32-bit or 64-bit
Microsoft Windows 7 32-bit or 64-bit
Microsoft Windows Server 2008 32-bit or 64-bit
Microsoft Windows Server 2012
Microsoft Windows Server 2012 R2
Microsoft Windows 2016
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Re: Veeam Oracle DB backup work with RMAN together?

Veeam Logoby Andreas Neufert » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:31 am

antran wrote:@Andreas: Thank
For Windows: You mean we still should enable Veeam Guest Proccessing even if the VM is File Server or there's no any VSS-application like Exchange, Sharepoint, MSSQL, AD?

yes, for sure!
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Re: Veeam Oracle DB backup work with RMAN together?

Veeam Logoby Andreas Neufert » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:39 am

Sorry , I'd like to clarify my question:
For Windows:
1/ You mean we still should enable Veeam Guest Proccessing even if the VM is File Server or there's no any VSS-application like Exchange, Sharepoint, MSSQL, AD? That's mean we need an GUEST OS account to enable it from Veeam?
Veeam do Application Aware Backup and treat the windows system in a way that is defined by Microsoft for backup.
For example there are everal system services that have VSS Writer and want to be brought in a consisten state before backup.
As well the filesystem should write the RAM cache down to the disks. Otherwise you could end up with damaged files on windows if not all writes went down to disk.
We set as well some things that allow a customer/windows to detect that a server was restored , which is important in several support cases.


2/ What happen if we enable VMware Tools Quiescense and freeze disk at VMware Tools for these Windows VM? I read from the artical that we have Windows and VMware VSS-supported applications (without known user for Guest OS processing)? What is that?
If you disable Veeam Guest processing, you have the option to eanble VMware Tools Quiescense. This perform basic VSS processing.
Think about it that way:
VMware Tools Quiescense => Tell the system that it will be copied.
Veeam Guest processing => tell the system that it get´s backed up.
Both work in case of consistency and would be fine for your file server.


3/ For these Windows (File Server), is it possible if we backup it in crash consistent mode?
I would not do this... Many customer do it that way without issues, but NTFS and REFS filesystems where not designed to be backed up in a crash consistent state.

According to https://helpcenter.veeam.com/docs/backu ... tml?ver=95, the VSS is already enable in VMware tools and no required steps to enable it again?
Corrct. You only need to enable it on the Veeam Job side under Storage-Advanced-VMware (this is only used if Veeam Guest processing is disabled)
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Re: Veeam Oracle DB backup work with RMAN together?

Veeam Logoby antran » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:53 am

@Andreas:
For Windows : What privileges of the GUEST OS account are if we want to config the application-aware processing for Windows VM? Those Windows VMs are joined to DOMAIN, but that's better if we can define a service account with sufficient privileges which is different with domain admin account? Do we have a list of required privileges?
For Linux: As you mentioned, we can backup Linux VM (No Oracle DB) in crash consistent mode. Thus can we DO NOT select anything including VMware Tools Quiescense and Veeam Guest processing?
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Re: Veeam Oracle DB backup work with RMAN together?

Veeam Logoby Andreas Neufert » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:57 am

Windows: Any account that is member of the local admin gorup is fine (including domain accounts).

Linux: correct
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Re: Veeam Oracle DB backup work with RMAN together?

Veeam Logoby antran » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:04 am

By the way, can you explain what benefit of Veeam Guest processing compared with VMware Tools Quiescense though both are consistency ? I read from artical, they told VMware Tools Quiescense might cause the Guest OS corrupted?
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Re: Veeam Oracle DB backup work with RMAN together?

Veeam Logoby Andreas Neufert » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:58 am

Please look at the top table here:
https://bp.veeam.expert/job_configurati ... ssing.html

Plus we leave settings behind that allow windows and several applications to detect that they are restored.

For example AD will be forced in non authorative restore mode, Exchange will perform VSS recovery procedure and Windows iteslf detect that it was restored (popup for you to fill aut why this happened).
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Re: Veeam Oracle DB backup work with RMAN together?

Veeam Logoby antran » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:24 am

Hi
I want to ask for the other Windows VM except AD, Exchange, SQL, Sharepoint, Oracle.
You mentioned that for Windows VM, we should always enable Veeam Guest processing and VMware Tools Quiescense will perform the basic VSS processing
Therefore, i want to ask what differences between Veeam Guest processing compared with VMware Tools Quiescense for these VMs?
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Re: Veeam Oracle DB backup work with RMAN together?

Veeam Logoby antran » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:56 am

@Andreas
Can you answer my concern? Do you understand what i ask?
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Re: Veeam Oracle DB backup work with RMAN together?

Veeam Logoby Andreas Neufert » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:46 pm

As I said it is listed in the table there + the description above.

The rule is simple:
Windows: Always enable Veeam Guest processing. If you do not have the Windows Credentials for the VM, use VMware Tools Quiescence.

Linux: If you have Oracle, enable our guest processing (check DB ArchiveLog Mode enabled first). Otherwise use Crash consistent backup (default). You can enable Vmware Tools Quiescense if you have plans to enable the VMware Tools Sync disk driver within the VMs if your applications are compatible with it.
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