Veeam Oracle DB backup work with RMAN together?

[antran]

Hello,
I'm having a case at my company. My company required to backup the Oracle DB every 30 minutes.
We are using RMAN to backup Oracle DB to local storage. But we still want to backup Oracle DB to another storage by Veeam

What kind of Veeam backup below should we use to achieve this requirement?
1/ Backup Oracle DB by Veeam (Guest OS level- using application-aware processing). Can we use this kind of backup with current RMAN together? Veeam engineer advise me to choose either one of them, but i have not seen any public article from Veeam about this.

2/ Backup VM by Veeam (Hypervisor level). Can we use this to backup every 30 mins? That's mean it will create a snapshot for that VM every 30mins and impact to VM performance?

Please give me your advices

[Gostev]

2. Normally, customers backup the VM daily, and transaction logs much more often (for example, every 30 min). Transaction log backup does not use VM snapshots, so it does not backup VM performance. Thanks!

[antran]

You mean backup transaction logs by Veeam which use the application-aware processing?
Can we backup transaction logs by Veeam but still use RMAN to backup everyday?

[Andreas Neufert]

Multiple options here.

In general it do not matter if you backup with Veeam + RMAN or just with one of them as long as you take care about the following:
- Backup runs should not run at same time (this do not count for Archive Log backups)
- Only one of the Backup Applications should take care about the Archive Log deletion over time
- All Archive Logs should stay on the server between 2 Veeam Backup Job runs, so that Veeam can track the Archive Logs together with the Image level backups.

So the setup could look like the following:
- RMAN Backup every 30 minutes
- Veeam Backup every day + Transaction Log backup every 30 minutes

Or just use Veeam. You can Backup with Veeam the wohle database as well every 30 minutes.

In upcomming Update 4 we have announced already that there will be a RMAN Plugin. Then you can use your normal RMAN to backup to a Veeam Repository.

[antran]

Thanks so much for your reply. I really appreciate it as that's exactly what i need
Actually, i'm going to setup as the following:
-RMAN: backup everyday
-Veeam : backup image every+ transaction log every 30mins

Could you please tell me when we will have Update 4?
Thanks

[Andreas Neufert]

Update 4 will come later this year. I think there is no date that we share at the moment.

[antran]

@Andreas Neufert :
One more thing, can you explain me why Backup runs should not run at same time ? What are issues if Veeam Backup run with RMAN at the same time?

[Andreas Neufert]

I guess there is maybe not an issue and if so you would see a failed job in Veeam or RMAN.

With the image level backup we set the DB in a backup stage (Alter Database begin backup) for the time until we have created a snapshot.
Maybe during that time the RMAN backup would be affected. So it is saver to schedule them on different times.

[antran]

@Andreas Neufert:
We are running Oracle DB on RedhatVM.
Does it mean Veeam perform the quiesce (Alter Database begin backup) on Linux Guest OS VM?
How can Veeam do it even though Linux doesn't have the VSS? Do we need to use some additional scripts (pre-freeze and post-thaw) to perform it?

[antran]

@Andreas Neufert:
We are running Oracle DB on RedhatVM.
Does it mean Veeam perform the quiesce (Alter Database begin backup) on Linux Guest OS VM?
How can Veeam do it even though Linux doesn't have the VSS? Do we need to use some additional scripts (pre-freeze and post-thaw) to perform it?

[Andreas Neufert]

If you enable Guest Processing within the Backup Job, Veeam checks on Windows and Linux if there is a Oracle DB present and bring it in the consistent state for the snapshot and release it afterwards. Then Veeam Backups from the Snapshot.

Veeam issue several commands to achive this. For example alter database begin backup.

If on Windows VSS is configured for Oracle, we use this on top of it.

All commands and procedures are documented in the Appendix of the following document:
https://www.veeam.com/wp-sap-oracle-dep ... guide.html

[marcio.defreitas]

Andreas, do you have any update about how the RMAN plugin would be licensed? Would it be an add on or customer should have an specific Veeam edition to work with it?

[Andreas Neufert]

Please look at the training documentation from sardinia. Specifically about the Veeam instance licensing.

Basically you need an Enterprise+ instance licenses for the VM/Physical Server (this will cover the VM image backup or the VAL agent AND the RMAN or other plugins).

There is a statement in the documentation that for RMAN plugin a Enterprise license is needed only. I do not know if this is correct. We need to wait until we see the final instance license documentation.

[antran]

@Andreas, can you give us the training link about Veeam instance licensing?

[Gostev]

Sorry, this is not public yet. He was talking to another Veeam employee about some internal documentation.

[antran]

@Gostev and Andreas: Thanks for your reply.
Can we talk abt this recommendation from Veeam:
1/ Basically, VMware tool quiescence is recommended for your basic Linux VM's? is it right?
2/ For other VM like Microsoft Active Directory, Microsoft Exchange, Microsoft SharePoint, Microsoft SQL Server, Oracle, we should use application aware processing, right?
3/ How about other Microsoft VM which are not listed as number 2? Should we use VMware tool quiescence ? Or according to https://forums.veeam.com/veeam-backup-r ... t1557.html, we should setup VMware VSS integration components in VMware Tools in each VM? How can we do it? We are using vSphere 6.5 so i wonder if it's already integrated VMware VSS in VMware tools?

[Andreas Neufert]

There is a deep artical that describe the options:
https://bp.veeam.expert/job_configurati ... ssing.html

In general:
Windows => Always enable Veeam Guest processing if you can.
Linux with Oracle => Always enable Veeam Guest processing if DB is in ArchiveLog mode
Linux => Usually the server is backed up in crash consistent mode. This is as well the default when you do VMware Tools Quiescense. At VMware Tools the freeze of the disks is not enabled by default. If you want to use it enable it in VMware Tools and Enable VMware Tools Quiescense in the Veeam Job under Storage-Advanced-VMware. Do not enable Veeam Guest processing then as it would overwrite it. The freeze of the disks can lead into application downtimes, please check with the application vendor if they support it.

[antran]

@Andreas: Thank
For Windows: You mean we still should enable Veeam Guest Proccessing even if the VM is File Server or there's no any VSS-application like Exchange, Sharepoint, MSSQL, AD?

[antran]

Sorry , I'd like to clarify my question:
For Windows:
1/ You mean we still should enable Veeam Guest Proccessing even if the VM is File Server or there's no any VSS-application like Exchange, Sharepoint, MSSQL, AD? That's mean we need an GUEST OS account to enable it from Veeam?
2/ What happen if we enable VMware Tools Quiescense and freeze disk at VMware Tools for these Windows VM? I read from the artical that we have Windows and VMware VSS-supported applications (without known user for Guest OS processing)? What is that?
3/ For these Windows (File Server), is it possible if we backup it in crash consistent mode?

[antran]

Sorry , I'd like to clarify my question:
For Windows:
1/ You mean we still should enable Veeam Guest Proccessing even if the VM is File Server or there's no any VSS-application like Exchange, Sharepoint, MSSQL, AD? That's mean we need an GUEST OS account to enable it from Veeam?
2/ What happen if we enable VMware Tools Quiescense and freeze disk at VMware Tools for these Windows VM? I read from the artical that we have Windows and VMware VSS-supported applications (without known user for Guest OS processing)? What is that?
3/ For these Windows (File Server), is it possible if we backup it in crash consistent mode?

According to https://helpcenter.veeam.com/docs/backu ... tml?ver=95, the VSS is already enable in VMware tools and no required steps to enable it again?

To quiesce VMs, Veeam Backup & Replication uses the VMware VSS component in VMware Tools. Starting from vSphere 3.5 U2, VMware Tools support Microsoft VSS. To use the VMware VSS component in VMware Tools, the VM must run one of the following OSes:

Microsoft Windows Server 2003 32-bit or 64-bit.
All latest updates and patches must be installed on the VM guest OS. Microsoft Windows 2003 SP1 at minimum is recommended.

Microsoft Windows Vista 32-bit or 64-bit
Microsoft Windows 7 32-bit or 64-bit
Microsoft Windows Server 2008 32-bit or 64-bit
Microsoft Windows Server 2012
Microsoft Windows Server 2012 R2
Microsoft Windows 2016

[Andreas Neufert]

@Andreas: Thank
For Windows: You mean we still should enable Veeam Guest Proccessing even if the VM is File Server or there's no any VSS-application like Exchange, Sharepoint, MSSQL, AD?

yes, for sure!

[Andreas Neufert]

Sorry , I'd like to clarify my question:
For Windows:
1/ You mean we still should enable Veeam Guest Proccessing even if the VM is File Server or there's no any VSS-application like Exchange, Sharepoint, MSSQL, AD? That's mean we need an GUEST OS account to enable it from Veeam?
Veeam do Application Aware Backup and treat the windows system in a way that is defined by Microsoft for backup.
For example there are everal system services that have VSS Writer and want to be brought in a consisten state before backup.
As well the filesystem should write the RAM cache down to the disks. Otherwise you could end up with damaged files on windows if not all writes went down to disk.
We set as well some things that allow a customer/windows to detect that a server was restored , which is important in several support cases.


2/ What happen if we enable VMware Tools Quiescense and freeze disk at VMware Tools for these Windows VM? I read from the artical that we have Windows and VMware VSS-supported applications (without known user for Guest OS processing)? What is that?
If you disable Veeam Guest processing, you have the option to eanble VMware Tools Quiescense. This perform basic VSS processing.
Think about it that way:
VMware Tools Quiescense => Tell the system that it will be copied.
Veeam Guest processing => tell the system that it get´s backed up.
Both work in case of consistency and would be fine for your file server.


3/ For these Windows (File Server), is it possible if we backup it in crash consistent mode?
I would not do this... Many customer do it that way without issues, but NTFS and REFS filesystems where not designed to be backed up in a crash consistent state.

According to https://helpcenter.veeam.com/docs/backu ... tml?ver=95, the VSS is already enable in VMware tools and no required steps to enable it again?
Corrct. You only need to enable it on the Veeam Job side under Storage-Advanced-VMware (this is only used if Veeam Guest processing is disabled)

[antran]

@Andreas:
For Windows : What privileges of the GUEST OS account are if we want to config the application-aware processing for Windows VM? Those Windows VMs are joined to DOMAIN, but that's better if we can define a service account with sufficient privileges which is different with domain admin account? Do we have a list of required privileges?
For Linux: As you mentioned, we can backup Linux VM (No Oracle DB) in crash consistent mode. Thus can we DO NOT select anything including VMware Tools Quiescense and Veeam Guest processing?

[Andreas Neufert]

Windows: Any account that is member of the local admin gorup is fine (including domain accounts).

Linux: correct

[antran]

By the way, can you explain what benefit of Veeam Guest processing compared with VMware Tools Quiescense though both are consistency ? I read from artical, they told VMware Tools Quiescense might cause the Guest OS corrupted?

[Andreas Neufert]

Please look at the top table here:
https://bp.veeam.expert/job_configurati ... ssing.html

Plus we leave settings behind that allow windows and several applications to detect that they are restored.

For example AD will be forced in non authorative restore mode, Exchange will perform VSS recovery procedure and Windows iteslf detect that it was restored (popup for you to fill aut why this happened).

[antran]

Hi
I want to ask for the other Windows VM except AD, Exchange, SQL, Sharepoint, Oracle.
You mentioned that for Windows VM, we should always enable Veeam Guest processing and VMware Tools Quiescense will perform the basic VSS processing
Therefore, i want to ask what differences between Veeam Guest processing compared with VMware Tools Quiescense for these VMs?

[antran]

@Andreas
Can you answer my concern? Do you understand what i ask?

[Andreas Neufert]

As I said it is listed in the table there + the description above.

The rule is simple:
Windows: Always enable Veeam Guest processing. If you do not have the Windows Credentials for the VM, use VMware Tools Quiescence.

Linux: If you have Oracle, enable our guest processing (check DB ArchiveLog Mode enabled first). Otherwise use Crash consistent backup (default). You can enable Vmware Tools Quiescense if you have plans to enable the VMware Tools Sync disk driver within the VMs if your applications are compatible with it.