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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by bunger » Jan 24, 2012 9:50 pm

Just curious for those of you using rotating external drives - is your Veeam server a physical server or a VM and if it is a VM, how are you dealing with the speed issues associated with USB pass-through?

Thanks
Bill

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by pitchpartners » Jan 26, 2012 9:54 am

tsightler wrote: Once again I will ask, are you simply running a full backup every night? If so, the registry key will still work. Simply configure the job to run an active full every night with the registry key and all is good.

You could also easily script the "Remove from backups" tasks via PowerShell and have the server automatically do this just prior to the backup run.
So you are saying the registry key DOES work on v6 in this following job configuration?
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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by tsightler » Jan 26, 2012 2:11 pm

In my testing, using this methodology, it worked fine. I wasn't using an external drive, but rather a folder. I removed the entire folder, and on the next night the folder was recreated, the entry was removed from the "Backups" and a new full backup was run without error. If your doing a full backup each night, this is easy to implement and not that different from V5.

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by mbelcourt » Jan 31, 2012 6:07 pm

bunger wrote:Just curious for those of you using rotating external drives - is your Veeam server a physical server or a VM and if it is a VM, how are you dealing with the speed issues associated with USB pass-through?

Thanks
Bill
My Veeam server (v6) is on VM. My external drive is on physical server with Veeam Proxy. I not tested yet with USB pass-through.

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by mbelcourt » Jan 31, 2012 6:18 pm

If there are people who want the script (Powershell) to automate the deletion of backups instead to do it manually.

Code: Select all

Add-PSSnapin	VeeamPSSnapin
$smtpServer = "10.10.10.10"
$msg = new-object Net.Mail.MailMessage
$smtp = new-object Net.Mail.SmtpClient($smtpServer)
$msg.From = "FlushBackup@test.com"
$msg.To.Add("me@test.com")
$msg.Subject = "enter your subject"
$msg.IsBodyHTML = $true
$msg.Body = Get-VBRBackup | ConvertTo-Html
$smtp.Send($msg)

get-vbrbackup | remove-vbrbackup -Confirm:$false

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by bunger » Jan 31, 2012 6:37 pm

mbelcourt wrote: My Veeam server (v6) is on VM. My external drive is on physical server with Veeam Proxy. I not tested yet with USB pass-through.
What kind of through-put speeds are seeing to the hard drive?

Thanks
Bill

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by mbelcourt » Jan 31, 2012 6:48 pm

bunger wrote: What kind of through-put speeds are seeing to the hard drive?

Thanks
Bill
It's between 25 to 29 MB/s

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by mbiesheuvel » Feb 06, 2012 8:35 am

pitchpartners wrote: So you are saying the registry key DOES work on v6 in this following job configuration?
Ok! I do not want (and can't) to use it. At some companies we have a very big site where a full backup takes like 20 hours. It's impossible to do this every night and then also need to copy the big file to e-sata disk. I just want the old option back! Please!

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by foggy » Feb 06, 2012 8:53 am

Michel, let me ask you once again as you haven't specified the clear answer previously: have you tried the solution given above by Anton: to create subfolders on the newly inserted drives for each job to put backups into?

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by pitchpartners » Feb 06, 2012 4:06 pm

Thank you all for trying to help but these 'work arounds' are not good enough.
I am going to roll back to version 5 and keep an eye on this forum. As much as I do not want to, if it's not fixed we will be looking at other vendors for clients who are required to use rotational removable media.
Rob
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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by tsightler » Feb 06, 2012 7:13 pm

Could you please be specific about what "work around" is not acceptable. As far as I can tell, except for requiring the sub-folder to exist, the behavior is exactly the same as V5 when using this registry key. Are you finding that not to be the case?

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by pitchpartners » Feb 07, 2012 11:34 am

tsightler wrote:Could you please be specific about what "work around" is not acceptable. As far as I can tell, except for requiring the sub-folder to exist, the behavior is exactly the same as V5 when using this registry key. Are you finding that not to be the case?
Your right, there's not much difference. v5 is still awkward but I did have that working with regular intervention. v6 I started copying the previous nights backup files from USB, locally and then copying back to the next scheduled backup USB. This work around seem to work, but I was having to do this for every job every day. I found like with v5 I still had to delete old data off the USB's as they were not being removed. Backup jobs should require setting up, tweeking and then forget about until an error is reported but it's possible I am missing something...?
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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by tsightler » Feb 07, 2012 1:51 pm

That's what I'm trying to understand. I'm able to get V6 to behave exactly like V5 using the same registry key as with previous versions. The only difference is that I have to remove both the VBK and VBM files and leave the job subfolder in place. With previous versions there was no subfolder and no VBM file, but otherwise it seems identical. I'm trying to understand what's so bad about V6 compared to V5 if the only difference is having to delete one extra file and leave a subfolder around. Honestly, with a single script automated via Task Manager, this becomes a completely automated process with either version.

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by ThomasMc » Feb 07, 2012 2:52 pm

Don't forget to use -FromDisk in the Remove-VBRBackup to delete completely

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by tsightler » Feb 08, 2012 4:28 am

If you're using the registry hack, you don't even need this since the chain is automatically started from scratch each time the directory is detected as empty. All previous entries are automatically deleted. A simple script that simply deletes the files 5 minutes prior to the backup starting is all that's really needed.

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[MERGED] Removable backup targets ... or is that too old-sch

Post by dtbullock » Apr 18, 2012 5:48 am

This is a pre-sales question. As I understand the Veaam B&R product from the product description, it uses 'Backup Proxies'. I have a small customer who wants to backup a single vSphere server and take the backups offsite (approx 3 x VM's @ 80GB ea). Is there a removable-disk target scenario that's supported by a Veeam backup proxy, or would one use replication here instead? Customer only has 768kbps upstream on their ADSL internet connection.

Apologies if I've misunderstood the whole backup architecture :-O

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by foggy » Apr 18, 2012 9:32 am

David, this scenario is supported, you just need to specify a registry key value for the backups to be created on a newly inserted disk. Please review this topic for details.

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by dtbullock » Apr 19, 2012 1:03 am

OK, so just to check that I've got it right, the simplest scenario would be:

a) 'Veeam Backup Server' is installed to a spare Windows 2008 R2 Server guest on the vSphere host;
b) a USB controller is passed-through to that guest from vSphere;
c) in this case, the registry hack is applied *to the Veeam Backup Server*, rather than a Backup Proxy
d) in this case, a separate Backup Proxy is not needed, but even if we did, it's not necessary to apply the registry hack to the Proxy

??

thanks,
David.

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by foggy » Apr 19, 2012 9:09 am

Correct. The key is set up on the backup server and applies to all proxy servers.

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by bunger » Apr 19, 2012 1:47 pm

dtbullock wrote:OK, so just to check that I've got it right, the simplest scenario would be:

b) a USB controller is passed-through to that guest from vSphere;

thanks,
David.
Depending on how much data your VMs consume, the USB pass-through may be a killer. Even with ESXi 5, I am still seeing USB pass-through speeds less than USB 1.1. For my installs, that throughput is too slow for me to backup during a night. But if you only have a couple of VMs, you should be fine.

Bill

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by dellock6 » Apr 19, 2012 5:40 pm

An alternative to usb passthrough or usb-to-ethernet adapter (Anywhere USB from Digi work in 1.1 mode...) can be at the end to connect directly the USB drive to a physical Windows machine used as Veeam Repository, so you can get full USB speed.
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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by J1mbo » May 18, 2012 9:13 am

dellock6 wrote:An alternative...connect directly the USB drive to a physical Windows machine used as Veeam Repository, so you can get full USB speed.
I've just been experimenting with this to replace tape altogether - USB 3 controller then copy the veeam files to the USB disk at the end of the week. We don't backup directly to USB because it's just a single slow drive so backups, especially the synthentic full, would take forever, whereas sequential streaming should be OK.

Anyway, for those using Windows Server 2008 (not R2) - you need the Windows Dynamic Cache Service installed, otherwise copying to USB the Windows cache fills the entire system memory which is completely pointless and pretty much everything else will be paged, effectively stalling the server until the job eventually completes (and it will be, eventually). The server will be totally unresponsive, won't be able to RDP or even use console in my experience.

After some experimentation (8GB RAM in the host), having min of 1GB and max of 2GB seems to be working well and ensures there is plenty of RAM available for the SQL service and everything else.

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Re: Removable backup targets ... or is that too old-school?

Post by davidkillingsworth » May 21, 2012 4:05 am

dtbullock wrote: This is a pre-sales question. As I understand the Veaam B&R product from the product description, it uses 'Backup Proxies'. I have a small customer who wants to backup a single vSphere server and take the backups offsite (approx 3 x VM's @ 80GB ea). Is there a removable-disk target scenario that's supported by a Veeam backup proxy, or would one use replication here instead? Customer only has 768kbps upstream on their ADSL internet connection.

Apologies if I've misunderstood the whole backup architecture :-O
I have exactly this scenario for many of my customers.

I would like to backup to a NAS drive, which I am guessing is simple enough to setup. However, I would also like to somehow copy my backups that are stored on the NAS to a removable USB drive once a week so that we could take them offsite.

Does anyone have a hardware recommendation that would make this easy.

Are there any gotchas to consider when restoring from an offsite backup

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Re: Removable backup targets ... or is that too old-school?

Post by foggy » May 21, 2012 8:59 am

davidkillingsworth wrote:I would like to backup to a NAS drive, which I am guessing is simple enough to setup. However, I would also like to somehow copy my backups that are stored on the NAS to a removable USB drive once a week so that we could take them offsite.

Does anyone have a hardware recommendation that would make this easy.
Actually, you do not even need the rotated drives scenario here, just use a simple script to copy the latest backup to an external device once a week. Also, if you just need to have two copies of backups (local and offsite), there are numerous existing discussions on how to perform offsite replication of backups, you can look through them to pick some ideas of what others do. Here is the couple of the most recent ones: Best backup setup for mirroring backup respository and v6 - How to have a local and off-site backup copy?
davidkillingsworth wrote:Are there any gotchas to consider when restoring from an offsite backup
You can always import the backup file to the Veeam B&R console and make it ready for restore. Otherwise, you can use a standalone utility (extract.exe) coming with Veeam B&R and allowing to restore VMs from any VBK file created by Veeam B&R, even without the product installed.

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by Gostev » May 27, 2012 8:42 pm

Just to update, version 6.1 adds support for the above-mentioned registry key to the v6 backup repositories.

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by dellock6 » May 28, 2012 4:43 am

Hi Anton, you mean it's no more needed to edit the key, but it will be an option inside the software?
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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by Gostev » May 28, 2012 6:53 am

I mean the registry key will now work. It stopped working due to the architecture change and adding new style backup repositories in v6.

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[MERGED] Veeam backup to NAS - then to USB disk

Post by sgatke » Jul 05, 2012 12:31 pm

Hi everybody

I have recently installed a trial version of Veeam B&R 6.1 in a simple Hyper-V environment.
Veeam is installed on a virtual machine with the backup target set to a mapped network drive (on a local Qnap NAS).
This seems to work very well. But, I would very much like to get the finished backup files copied to USB hard drives that I rotate once a week.
In other words, I would like to end up with the most recent backups on the NAS (and the present USB drive), and then have 4 or 5 weeks worth of backups on the other, off-site USB drives.

Our Qnap NAS has a USB connection which I plan to use. This drive is available using \\qnap\usb (or similar UNC path).
Do I use the Veeam Scheduled File Copy to acieve this? Is this at all possible, considering I rotate the USB drive once a week?
As far as I know, the Qnap USB device is always available using the same UNC path. I expect I can map the network drive as eg Z: and keep that mapping even though I exchange the disks.

Any tips or advice doing this?

Thank you in advance.

/Simon

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by J1mbo » Jul 06, 2012 7:55 am

Might be worth checking if the QNAP offers any 'offload' capability, to avoiding dragging everything across the network both ways, to perform the copy.

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by sgatke » Jul 12, 2012 12:11 pm

Thanks J1mbo

I will try setting up the Qnap 'backup to external drive' function and see how that goes.

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