No Catalyst Copy support?

[SyNtAxx]

Hello,

Its been two years since I checked in on this feature request, is catalyst integrated copy ever going to be a reality? The lack of this feature is causing huge headaches for our company. Yuuuuge!

Nick

[Gostev]

Yes Nick, it is still planned. While this feature was indeed requested two years ago, considering that only a small portion of Veeam customers will benefit from one I could not possibly prioritize it above existing commitments and high priority features important for the majority of our users. Additionally, this particular feature has to be taken care of by the specific R&D subteam, which has been quite overloaded in the past couple of years.

[SyNtAxx]

Gostev,

This line is taken from the Help file of version 9.5.

"This mechanism helps improve performance of primary backup jobs AND backup copy jobs that are scheduled to create periodic archive full backups (GFS)."

Is this line a typo, or am I missing something and the Remote StoreOnce unit should be using Catalyst on the target side to transform the GFS restore points that Veeam Backup Copy already moved? I have GFS transformations running into the hundreds of hours on remote catalyst stores, where synthetic fulls on catalyst stores take a few hours at most on primary backup jobs.

One example is running 217 hours as of this post and its Merging oldest restore point into full backup file [GFS] (93% done) @ 217 hours and Compacting full backup file (82% done) @ 217 hours. and Creating synthetic full restore point < Date > for 217 hours and no percentage.

Thanks,

Nick



From the Help Center:

Synthetic Full Backups

HP StoreOnce Catalyst improves synthetic full backup file creation and transformation performance. When Veeam Backup & Replication creates or transforms a synthetic full backup, HPE StoreOnce does not physically copy data between the existing backup chain and the target full backup file. Instead, it performs a metadata-only operation — updates pointers to existing data blocks on the storage device. As a result, the operation completes much faster. This mechanism helps improve performance of primary backup jobs and backup copy jobs that are scheduled to create periodic archive full backups (GFS).

[gofish]

Yes Nick, it is still planned. While this feature was indeed requested two years ago, considering that only a small portion of Veeam customers will benefit from one I could not possibly prioritize it above existing commitments and high priority features important for the majority of our users. Additionally, this particular feature has to be taken care of by the specific R&D subteam, which has been quite overloaded in the past couple of years.

We recently purchased Veeam with the understanding that Catalyst Copy would be available soon. However from what you're saying, it sounds as if it is planned but not any time soon. This is quite concerning as this functionality is a high priority for us. Now I'm left wondering if we shouldn't have looked the other products that do include Catalyst Copy.

[Gostev]

Nick - yes, Catalyst should be used there. May be it is in fact used, and the reason for slowness is different? Please investigate this with support.

[SyNtAxx]

I have a current case open: Case # 03260431 (opened at the request of Channel Partner support via Veeam)

I have had previous cases open on the same issue/concern in the past. With no resolution, thus far. As far as I can tell, the problem is the 'compaction' of the file into new vbk files.

Thanks,

Nick

[foggy]

Any chance you've recently removed some VMs from the source job?

[SyNtAxx]

There is always a chance, we have thousands of vms. But this behavior is consistent across the 51 currently configured copy jobs, many of which I know haven't had any server retirements. Under the advanced settings on the job, all the Health and "remove Deleted items" are unchecked. I have a webex later today with support to look at job settings, but i see some interesting things in the logs but they could mean something else completely from what I'm interpreting.

Nick

[Regnor]

"This mechanism helps improve performance of primary backup jobs AND backup copy jobs that are scheduled to create periodic archive full backups (GFS)."

I hope I don't misunderstand you.
Catalyst is used for Backup Copy jobs from your primary storage to the StoreOnce appliance. But it isn't used between two appliances.

[brentdowling]

Any update yet on when catalyst copy support will be supported? We keep hearing it is coming soon, but that has been since 9.0. We did see Catalyst support but it was short the catalyst copy functionality.

[foggy]

Hi Brent, please see the latest (month old) update from Anton above:

Yes Nick, it is still planned. While this feature was indeed requested two years ago, considering that only a small portion of Veeam customers will benefit from one I could not possibly prioritize it above existing commitments and high priority features important for the majority of our users. Additionally, this particular feature has to be taken care of by the specific R&D subteam, which has been quite overloaded in the past couple of years.

[tcogghe1976]

So, has this feature - finally - been included in U4 ?

[foggy]

Hi Tom, Catalyst Copy is not in U4. However, U4 includes a number of other enhancements for StoreOnce support, please refer to the What's New document for more details. Thanks!

[mc20piece]

Disappointing.

[mkaaden]

I concur with mc20piece, this is rather disappointing.

I hoped that with this closer collaboration with HPE to push Veeam, this feature would get more priority to be implemented.
Also due to fact that StoreOnce Appliances are much more affordable than they used to be and they do a pretty damn good job when it comes to deduplication.
I do see over 350TB user data stored on 25TB diskspace !

The one thing that is killing the back-up is copying data from one StoreOnce to the other with Veeam.

[ianbutton1]

I absolutely agree - Catalyst is great, Veeam is great - together they could be brilliant! Hurry up Veeam developers . . . !

[rdrost]

Dissapointing indeed. We are also waiting for this feature.
And also the ability to migrate backup jobs from one Storeonce to another including the backup chain which is not possible now. Maybe this comes along with "catalyst copy" support.
It's good to know the feature is still planned but i guess it will not come "soon".
(And bytheway the new Storeonce Cloud Bank feature is also not supported by Veeam. )

[davemann]

Personally, I'd rather see the ability to copy or move files/chains between Catalyst based repositories using the "Files" tab before native Catalyst Copy support. I'd like to move certain jobs/backup files to stores where they will dedupe better to each other rather than in gigantic stores, like I naively originally set up. Also, it would likely result in better parallel restore/backup job performance. Unfortunately the "Files" tab doesn't let you do this for Catalyst stores like it does with regular repositories.

I have over a PB worth of restore point data on my remote unit. One thing is for certain though, I'm not looking forward to the day when the 5100's go end-of-support, and someone asks how we can migrate the data from these units to new hardware. It will take FOREVER, if even be possible at all. And don't even tell me that Cloud is the answer. Who's got money for the storage, and the amount of bandwidth it will take to get there.

Not sure why some of you are having issues with merge operations that cause them to take any longer than SF creations, but on my end they run in about the same time. I have two 5100's with two expansion trays each, at my primary DC connected via 2x10GbE, and my remote site connected by a single 1GbE, and my copy jobs take a bit longer than I'd like, but certainly before the next day's run.

Storage Snapshot integration and a physical backup proxy tied into the SAN is a godsend.

[foggy]

Personally, I'd rather see the ability to copy or move files/chains between Catalyst based repositories using the "Files" tab before native Catalyst Copy support.

Hi Dave, thanks for the feedback. This is also on our list.

[davemann]

Thanks.

Oh, and one more thing - Allow offload of files from Catalyst Stores to Tape via the "Files to Tape" jobs.

-Dave

[foggy]

This one is also there.

[rdrost]

Recently ia picked up a rumour that Veeam wil support Catalyst Copy / move files/chains between Catalyst based repositories using the "Files" tab in V10. True ??

[foggy]

Well, the rumour is partially true. v10 will indeed support Catalyst Copy for replication of backups between repositories, but not via the Files tab.

[rdrost]

OK, thanks for the update:
So V10 will support HPE Storeonce Catalyst Copy Replication of backups between repositorys. Does this eliminate the need for having two backup copy jobs for archival purposes ?

Moving a backup chain for the purpose of allowing the backub job to run on another HPE storeonce repository is still not possible in V10. Correct ?

[foggy]

Depending on what was the scenario for having two backup copy jobs. The main scenario for Catalyst Copy will be mirroring the primary repository between StoreOnce devices. You can then use backup copy jobs to offload backups further with GFS retention, to comply with the 3-2-1 rule, or mirror them to a third StoreOnce instead.

Migration to another StoreOnce repository will also be possible.

[rdrost]

We have primary backup jobs wit 14 day/restorepoints.
We have one copy job with onsite Storeonce repository as target en one copy job wite remote offsite storeonce repository as target. Both copy jobs keep 14 daily, 5 weekly, 12 Monthly GFS restore points.
So i was thinking using only one copy job and let it replicate through Catalyst Copy.
OR
Using only primary backup jobs but then it's not easy to keep 14 daily, 5 weekly, 12 Monthly GFS restore points.

Wil migration to another StoreOnce repository possibility also move the existing backup chain ? This can not be done in 9.5 update 4 with Storeonce repository (makes use of Files tab).

[foggy]

So i was thinking using only one copy job and let it replicate through Catalyst Copy.

Yes, in this case, you will be able to switch from two backup copy jobs to a single Catalyst Copy one.

Wil migration to another StoreOnce repository possibility also move the existing backup chain ? This can not be done in 9.5 update 4 with Storeonce repository (makes use of Files tab).

Yes, Catalyst Copy job will allow migrating the entire chain.

[rdrost]

That's great !

[ianbutton1]

This all looks like good news! Can't wait for V10 to appear Any progress with support for CloudBank?

[foggy]

Hi Ian, nothing to share at this point.